Greece...

Graham_Devon

grizzly1911 wrote: »

[STRIKE]When[/STRIKE] if all these countries get glued together fully under the master plan what is going to happen to them?

Are they all going to flatten out into modest wealth or will there still be wealthy zones and poor zones.

Once the greek welfare has been balanced (pensioners on <300e per month etc) public servants on 750e and numbers of them are purely subsisting, europe is paying the welfare bill will europe then start paying welfare + to equalise across europe? Will they be left to live on their 300e when the equivelant recipient in say Bonn is on 600e?

All figures pie in the sky examples.

Well, the med countries could simply turn into Bulgaria and the likes.

More mass poverty, and bigger riches for the rich countries. That's all I see playing out right now. Nothing is equal here, as it's all about keeping the rich countries afloat. The people in the med countries seem of little (if any) concern to France & Germany (or us, to that matter).

Thrugelmir

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Are they all going to flatten out into modest wealth or will there still be wealthy zones and poor zones.

There'll need to be equalisation of tax rates, benefits, retirement ages etc.

Ultimately Countries would be required to lose their identity. That's where the concept breaks down. Too many centuries of history.

GeorgeHowell

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There'll need to be equalisation of tax rates, benefits, retirement ages etc.

Ultimately Countries would be required to lose their identity. That's where the concept breaks down. Too many centuries of history.

That's where the American view of it all is characteristically naive. They don't see why the difference between the UK and Italy, for example, would be any more of an issue than say between Illinois and Virginia.

Thrugelmir

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

That's where the American view of it all is characteristically naive. They don't see why the difference between the UK and Italy, for example, would be any more of an issue than say between Illinois and Virginia.

Depends what you define as the American view. I suspect few have any interest in world affairs. Let alone any understanding of several thousand years of how historical events have shaped Europe. And therefore the way people culturally are so different.

GeorgeHowell

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Depends what you define as the American view. I suspect few have any interest in world affairs. Let alone any understanding of several thousand years of historical events have shaped Europe. And therefore the way people culturally are so different.

I was referring to the official American view as recently expressed by Obama, but I agree with what you say there.

tesuhoha

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well, the med countries could simply turn into Bulgaria and the likes.

More mass poverty, and bigger riches for the rich countries. That's all I see playing out right now. Nothing is equal here, as it's all about keeping the rich countries afloat. The people in the med countries seem of little (if any) concern to France & Germany (or us, to that matter).

We are not a rich country. We have more debt than anyone else and no hope of ever being able to pay it back. We could end up like Bulgaria.

ALIBOBSY

The big problem that no politician in the west will ever admit to is western countries have ridden a wave of prosperity based around an oil economy and like it or not that's coming to an end. Its a bit like the fall of Rome or any other big empire, it only lasts so long and the money moves on. Other countries are booming/growing, China, Brazil, Indian etc and as in a small scale economy for someone to be rich, someone else has to be poor.

I think Greece would be better coming out of the euro and drawing inwards, becoming more self sufficient and sorting out their internal problems. The EU would be better served by instead of lending more money, using that money to ease Greece's exit and its effects on the banks/finances of the EU countries.

Ali x

ILW

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

The big problem that no politician in the west will ever admit to is western countries have ridden a wave of prosperity based around an oil economy and like it or not that's coming to an end. Its a bit like the fall of Rome or any other big empire, it only lasts so long and the money moves on. Other countries are booming/growing, China, Brazil, Indian etc and as in a small scale economy for someone to be rich, someone else has to be poor.

I think Greece would be better coming out of the euro and drawing inwards, becoming more self sufficient and sorting out their internal problems. The EU would be better served by instead of lending more money, using that money to ease Greece's exit and its effects on the banks/finances of the EU countries.

Ali x

That would mean the Eurocrats admitting they were wrong, they would rather bankrupt the whole region than do that.

Thrugelmir

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

I think Greece would be better coming out of the euro and drawing inwards, becoming more self sufficient and sorting out their internal problems. The EU would be better served by instead of lending more money, using that money to ease Greece's exit and its effects on the banks/finances of the EU countries.

Ali x

Greece was never in a fit financial state to join the EU. Was a political fudge.

How does lending more money help?

antrobus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Greece was never in a fit financial state to join the EU. Was a political fudge.

How does lending more money help?

It buys time.