Greece...

Generali

If the reports are true, Greece is going to be 'lent' an entire year of tax receipts.

Graham_Devon

BBC's Economics Correspondant is explaining it in nice bite sized chunks!

1. Almost no one coming out of this well.

2. Greek govt went to the brink causing huge damage to economy & then got a deal which falls well short of aims.

3. German govt showed an ugly side, aiming for humiliation rather than compromise.

4. IMF continually ignoring its own rules and lending without firm debt restructuring commitments.

5. ECB got dragged into the politics risking image as an independent central bank.

6. And once again - the Greek people are the real losers of it all.

antrobus

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well I've just heard that's the deal hasn't really been agreed, rather the framework of the deal has been agreed.. It now needs to go back to Greece for parliamentary approval.

It also requires approval of all the member states. Also heard it will push Greece to 200% GDP to debt ratio? Not sure if that's true.

The way it's being reported I assumed it was on.

Word from Greece appears to be that theres no way it will be approved and Tspiras will now have lost the confidence of the Greek electorate.

Which means more negotiations.

You are confused because you are not paying attention.

Eurozone leaders have reached a "unanimous" agreement over a third Greeek bailout
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33503955

Tsipras appears to support it. Whether the Greek parliament accepts the deal is another thing altogether.

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

You are confused because you are not paying attention.

Eurozone leaders have reached a "unanimous" agreement over a third Greeek bailout
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33503955

Tsipras appears to support it. Whether the Greek parliament accepts the deal is another thing altogether.

Maybe they'll give Golden Dawn a go at the next election.

remorseless

What happens if the Greek Parliament doesn't pass legislations and then the EZ countries parliament don't approve the ESM bailouts?

back to the talking table?

antrobus

remorseless wrote: »

What happens if the Greek Parliament doesn't pass legislations and then the EZ countries parliament don't approve the ESM bailouts?

back to the talking table?

A crucial aspect of any new ESM programme is parliamentary approval of six euro zone members: Germany, the Netherlands, Finland, Estonia, Austria and Slovakia. In these countries, approval can range from a simple parliamentary committee backing to a full plenary vote.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/what-would-a-third-greek-bailout-look-like-1.2272924

For most of the EZ countries, no parliamentary approval is required.

But if somebody does say 'no', I'd guess it would be back to 'talks' again. But the longer it goes on, the more likely it is that there won't be anything worth talking about.

TheBlueHorse

What's all this fuss? We'll have no democracy here. This a local union, for local people.

mwpt

Anecdote time:
I just recently spoke with a young Greek guy, working here in London. He was explaining about extra taxes being raised on various things but said in general, his experience and the experience of his family, was that life was just carrying on, not too much extra hardship. The caveat is that they are not in Athens and he says he does not know what life is like for the average person there.

I'm remain fairly sceptical about the trodden into the ground narrative being used as anti-eu rhetoric.

worldtraveller

Here's the Euro Summit Statement (pdf)

http://www.ara.cat/mon/Lacord-cimera-liders-europeus-Grecia_ARAFIL20150713_0002.pdf

Graham_Devon

Interesting that some of the terms in the bailout fundementally change the whole concept of politics and working conditions. Indeed, the entire way of life in Greece.

Now, I know many are against unions and/or strikes. but the bailout conditions specifically state that the Greeks must effectively outlaw current industrial action laws and "bring them into line" with European best practices as currently they are not compatible with the EU goals.

And it's not just industrial action they want changing, it's entire labour market policies. As part of the deal collective dismissal will have to be introduced.

They also need to re-look at Sunday trade (Sunday is a day which the Greeks still hold close to them as a day of rest) and get shops trading on Sundays. Pharmaceuticals needs to be looked at (something which Germany have a HUGE interest in overtaking).

They need to eliminate any possibility of political interference on the appointment processed when it comes to banks etc (which basically means let the EU technocrat appoint the correct people and don't even think about voicing your opposition).

And worst? They want to "de-politicise" the Greek administration. That basically means pointless democracy as politics will no longer run things.

As I say, regardless of your view on the above and whether they are right or wrong, this bailout forces Greece to change into what the EU wants Greece to be.

I'm not sure you can force this cultural change on people?

Imagine for just a second that the EU stated we had to dismantle the NHS in order to fall in line with EU policies. The NHS is something which means so much to so many. It's effectively what the Greeks are being told. Privatise your pharmacies, privatise your public infrastructure, forego your sovereignty. And when you've done that, we'll strip you of your labour rights.