Greece...

RJP33

Having said that, there is no justification for the complete humiliation of that deal that was 'agreed'.

Sapphire

remorseless wrote: »

Farage is ready to assist!

There's another picture somewhere showing how Junker took it off him and walked of with it (Farage with 'giggle' on face)!:D

RJP33

Really interesting interview with Varoufakis - http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/07/yanis-varoufakis-full-transcript-our-battle-save-greece

I agree with pretty much everything he said, in 2-3 years time, if this goes through, they'll be in much the same position.

wymondham

so......... has this fixed the problem, or just avoided something nobody really wanted to do (except maybe the Greek people themselves)... ????

Graham_Devon

If theres one thing that stands out in all of this, it's how wrong everyone has got every calculation that have ever made on the greek bailouts.

In 2009, there would be one bailout and no more.

In 2012 while designing the second bailout, the EU stated that in 2020, the Greek debt to GDP ratio would be 116%. This was backed up by the IMF. It will be closer to 200%.

In 2014, the EU stated that Greece would need a 3rd bailout. How much would they need? €20bn.

Further to this, Wolfgang state that "what is sure is that any further aid would be much less expansive than help so far".

The shortfall Greece faced, by their calculations in 2015, would be £15bn. A figure so far away from the reality.

Yet a year later, the deal offered is FOUR TIMES the amount these exceedingly clever people calculated. And they were so sure it would be less expansive that it turned out hidiously more expansive.

And it can't all be blamed on Syrzia, they only came into power in January. Just 6 months after these statements, the EU calculations were already wildly off, and this was with an EU Technocrat posted in Greece.

If these sorts of massive errors occured in private business, these people would be shown the door.

Worth a quick read to realise just how far out every "sure thing" prediction was.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10614315/Eurozone-paves-way-for-third-Greek-bail-out.html#

And it was all blatantly obvious, hence this very thread started so many moons ago and all of our contributions to it since (well, ok, most).

worldtraveller

According to sources in Brussels, the European Union wants to use the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM) to provide temporary loans of up to 12 billion euros to help Greece pay its bills in the coming weeks.

Although the beleaguered country is now in talks with EU leaders over a new bailout, it is still in desperate need of short-term cash to cover a 3.5 billion euro debt payment to the European Central Bank due next Monday.

All 28 EU member states contribute to the EFSM and it would be a hugely controversial move to use it to address a problem specific to the eurozone. Britain's contribution to the fund is 12 per cent, meaning it could be expected to cough up £1 billion.

Express.co.uk

Over to you Cameron! You assured the House of Commons that Britain will be exempt from eurozone bailouts after your deal with the EU, which you even used as proof that you can renegotiate Britain’s membership.

The 2015 Conservative manifesto states: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

remorseless

It seems like the UK will not be coughing anything...

Graham_Devon

worldtraveller wrote: »

According to sources in Brussels, the European Union wants to use the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM) to provide temporary loans of up to 12 billion euros to help Greece pay its bills in the coming weeks.

Although the beleaguered country is now in talks with EU leaders over a new bailout, it is still in desperate need of short-term cash to cover a 3.5 billion euro debt payment to the European Central Bank due next Monday.

All 28 EU member states contribute to the EFSM and it would be a hugely controversial move to use it to address a problem specific to the eurozone. Britain's contribution to the fund is 12 per cent, meaning it could be expected to cough up £1 billion.

Express.co.uk

Over to you Cameron! You assured the House of Commons that Britain will be exempt from bailouts because of your deal and even used this as proof that you can radically renegotiate Britain’s membership with the EU.

The 2015 Conservative manifesto states: “We took Britain out of Eurozone bailouts, including for Greece – the first ever return of powers from Brussels.”

Osbourne has already immediately rejected it.

We have an agreement set out in 2010 that any funds we provide are not to be used in bailouts.

So probably time to get the waterboard out

Voyager2002

A wonderful quote about Greece: who do you think said this?

"This country must stop extending and pretending, we must stop taking on new loans pretending that we’ve solved the problem, when we haven’t; when we have made our debt even less sustainable on condition of further austerity that even further shrinks the economy; and shifts the burden further onto the have nots, creating a humanitarian crisis."

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/07/yanis-varoufakis-full-transcript-our-battle-save-greece

ruggedtoast

This is the complete humiliation of a sovereign nation. A disgrace.

And the French are cowering in fear, too frightened to raise a squeak of protest in case they anger the Germans. Just for a change.