Greece...

remorseless

Do you think the Greek parliament will be passing through all those legislations by tomorrow?

ruggedtoast

mwpt wrote: »

But Greece, and the anti-austerity party, have accepted it.

Greeks have not accepted it. They are fuming!

They comprehensively rejected this financial colonialism from Berlin in their referendum and have got an even worse version a week later.

mwpt

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Greeks have not accepted it. They are fuming!

They comprehensively rejected this financial colonialism from Berlin in their referendum and have got an even worse version a week later.

No, my point was the anti-austerity party has accepted it. What on earth are they doing? They were elected with a mandate and they've capitulated.

For the record, I never thought they were going to be able to keep their promises, it was never in their control. My question is how they can justify their existence with this action?

ruggedtoast

mwpt wrote: »

No, my point was the anti-austerity party has accepted it. What on earth are they doing? They were elected with a mandate and they've capitulated.

For the record, I never thought they were going to be able to keep their promises, it was never in their control. My question is how they can justify their existence with this action?

They haven't got it through parliament yet.

Would love to see the smirk wiped from Merkel and Schauble if Tsipras is back in Brussels next week.

Mistermeaner

I voted for the party that were going to turn water into wine now im angry because they cant.

Thats not democratic wah wah wah i didn't get what I wanted.

dktreesea

vivatifosi wrote: »

How do you secure debt on a national basis? If not paid, do the Germans get Rhodes or something?

You get the other country to put up their state assets for sale then your government, or preferably some corporate proxies the government has a share in (or will reap the benefits via taxation) buys up the assets at a price way less than market value. And voila, when the citizens of Greece pay their electricity bills the money flows straight in to the back pockets of German shareholders and the German government (via tax). Oh yes, and even provides employment to German citizens. After all, you do need a few people to count up the dosh.


Ultimately Greece might have to privatise some of their state assets, but if so will hopefully do it at market rates and without handing having to let the Germans take the first bite of the cherry.

dktreesea

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

It's hardly the same. Germany had just been ravaged by war and an evil dictator.

As I recall Germany did most of the ravaging, including bombing our own citizens. And Hitler would have just been a loony and ignored if the Germans hadn't chosen to be captivated by his rhetoric. Germany wasn't, and isn't, blameless. The fact that they lost the war (thank you to the USA and Russia for your help in bringing this about) and ended up "ravaged" doesn't mean they shouldn't have to pay the countries they stole from back now.


We also borrowed, from the USA, to finance our war effort. It took 50 years to pay them back. They tried on a number of occasions to forgive our debt but the Brits refused. When exactly did the Greeks agree to forgive the Germany's debts?

remorseless

dktreesea wrote: »

As I recall Germany did most of the ravaging, including bombing our own citizens. And Hitler would have just been a loony and ignored if the Germans hadn't chosen to be captivated by his rhetoric. Germany wasn't, and isn't, blameless. The fact that they lost the war (thank you to the USA and Russia for your help in bringing this about) and ended up "ravaged" doesn't mean they shouldn't have to pay the countries they stole from back now.


We also borrowed, from the USA, to finance our war effort. It took 50 years to pay them back. They tried on a number of occasions to forgive our debt but the Brits refused. When exactly did the Greeks agree to forgive the Germany's debts?

and your point is?

The issue got settled, these bailouts (#1, #2 and soon #3) were/are not offered to Greece for free!

michaels

mwpt wrote: »

No, my point was the anti-austerity party has accepted it. What on earth are they doing? They were elected with a mandate and they've capitulated.

For the record, I never thought they were going to be able to keep their promises, it was never in their control. My question is how they can justify their existence with this action?

I can't see how Tspiras (sp?) can do anything but resign once the negotiations are concluded as he wll no longer have any influence over most of the issues he one first an election and then a referendum on. Presumably the referndum was called when they were still playing game theory negotiations and then the finance ministeg to the boot when they decied to fold even thought they might have been holding a winning hand because they got scared when the stakes were raised.

I can see some good books being published in a few months time.

antrobus

remorseless wrote: »

Do you think the Greek parliament will be passing through all those legislations by tomorrow?

Who knows?

Lafazanis, the Energy Minister and the leader of the Left Platform within SYRIZA has already come out against the deal.

I believe that the parliamentary arithmetic is such that, given that the centrist parties - ND, Potami, PASOK total 106 votes - support the necessary legislation, Tsipras only needs another 45 votes. And he's got one of those himself.