Greece...

chucknorris

worldtraveller wrote: »

Here's the Euro Summit Statement (pdf)

http://www.ara.cat/mon/Lacord-cimera-liders-europeus-Grecia_ARAFIL20150713_0002.pdf

Thanks, I will probably read that later, but right now my brain is refusing to spend any more attention on Greece.

remorseless

Graham_Devon wrote: »

They also need to re-look at Sunday trade (Sunday is a day which the Greeks still hold close to them as a day of rest) and get shops trading on Sundays. Pharmaceuticals needs to be looked at (something which Germany have a HUGE interest in overtaking).

As I say, regardless of your view on the above and whether they are right or wrong, this bailout forces Greece to change into what the EU wants Greece to be.

I'm not sure you can force this cultural change on people?

hmmm what would it be good for Greece then?

If bailout money reaches them, it's not good because they cannot repay or should be a war repayment.
If no bailout, it's not good cause it will be bad for them running out of money
Greece does not want to leave the Euro and wants to keep the currency, but they don't want rules because Sunday is a rest day, because pharma may have German interests, etc

it seems that, nothing, absolutely nothing will ever be good for Greece, or would they just like to be in EZ, have bailout out, keep doing what they are doing and hoping it'll solve itself?

Maybe I am thick, but seems nothing will ever work!

I am sure many other EU countries were not particularly thrilled to change their ways either, but it's a different time now...Greece like some other countries keep being stuck in 'how' it used to be!

wotsthat

Graham - you do know this is a bailout agreement?

Greece don't have to accept any of this if they consider the terms too onerous.

worldtraveller

A concern to me is that I notice in the last paragraph of the Euro Summit document that "the Commission will (over the next 3-5 years) work closely with the Greek authorities to mobilise up to EUR 35 billion (under various EU programmes) to fund investment and economic activity......"

Does this mean that part of our EU budget will be, for all intents and purposes, helping to "bailout" Greece? :think:

antrobus

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Interesting that some of the terms in the bailout fundementally change the whole concept of politics and working conditions. Indeed, the entire way of life in Greece.

Now, I know many are against unions and/or strikes. but the bailout conditions specifically state that the Greeks must effectively outlaw current industrial action laws and "bring them into line" with European best practices as currently they are not compatible with the EU goals. ....

Actually what the document says is;

labour market policies should be aligned with international and European best practices, and should not involve a return to past policy settings which are not compatible with the goals of promoting sustainable and inclusive growth

Graham_Devon wrote: »

..And it's not just industrial action they want changing, it's entire labour market policies. As part of the deal collective dismissal will have to be introduced. ...

The New Democracy government of Kostas Karamanlis excelled in this mismanagement, appointed an estimated 150,000 civil servants...

Graham_Devon wrote: »

....They also need to re-look at Sunday trade (Sunday is a day which the Greeks still hold close to them as a day of rest) and get shops trading on Sundays. ...

Are you a paid up member of the Lord's Day Observance Society?:)

Graham_Devon wrote: »

....Pharmaceuticals needs to be looked at (something which Germany have a HUGE interest in overtaking). ....

Why? What's the problem?

Graham_Devon wrote: »

..They need to eliminate any possibility of political interference on the appointment processed when it comes to banks etc (which basically means let the EU technocrat appoint the correct people and don't even think about voicing your opposition).

And worst? They want to "de-politicise" the Greek administration. That basically means pointless democracy as politics will no longer run things....

If you don't understand the extent to which the Greek administration has been 'politicised' in the recent past, with successive governments operating a jobs for the boys policy, then you don't understand anything about Greece.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

....As I say, regardless of your view on the above and whether they are right or wrong, this bailout forces Greece to change into what the EU wants Greece to be.

What do you think ever closer union means?

Graham_Devon wrote: »

...
I'm not sure you can force this cultural change on people?

.Imagine for just a second that the EU stated we had to dismantle the NHS in order to fall in line with EU policies. The NHS is something which means so much to so many. ...

We could exercise our right to secede from the union.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

...
It's effectively what the Greeks are being told. Privatise your pharmacies, privatise your public infrastructure, forego your sovereignty. And when you've done that, we'll strip you of your labour rights.

Greece does not have the equivalent of the NHS. The pharmacies are already privatised - that is not the issue. You can read the section on pharmacies in the OECD assessment on Greek competition if you're interested in knowing the actual issue involved.

http://www.oecd.org/daf/competition/Greece-Competition-Assessment-2013.pdf

antrobus

worldtraveller wrote: »

A concern to me is that I notice in the last paragraph of the Euro Summit document that "the Commission will (over the next 3-5 years) work closely with the Greek authorities to mobilise up to EUR 35 billion (under various EU programmes) to fund investment and economic activity......"

Does this mean that part of our EU budget will be, for all intents and purposes, helping to bailout Greece? :think:

Interesting point.

Don't know to what extent any of that involves new money. Membership of the EU is worth around €5bn a year to Greece, largely because its contributions to the EU budget are much less than what it receives from the 'various EU programmes' referred to.

It might be that Commission is intending nothing more than to ensure that this money is spent on things that will actually support growth and job creation. There have been suggestions that much of the previous spending was, err, 'wasted'.:)

See for example;

Greece has received some 90 billion euros in EU funds, but big parts of that went down the drain in economically useless or simply made-up projects.

http://www.dw.com/en/eu-funds-for-projects-that-never-existed/a-16113829

TheBlueHorse

I think Tsipras should call a referendum. See what the people think.


I think they'll say "no".


"Only when the voice of the people is heard, can it be ignored"


Some faceless Brussels Technocrat.

remorseless

TheBlueHorse wrote: »

I think Tsipras should call a referendum. See what the people think.

Farage is ready to assist!

RJP33

Graham_Devon wrote: »

:shocked:

Payback!?

Welcome to the EU and the ignoring of democracy. Tsipras thought it would help.

Looking at the big picture Tsipras has caused massive damage over the last 6 months for effectively nothing, unless I've missed something there's still no guarantee of debt relief.

TheBlueHorse

that is what happens when you vote is lefties. Even here, where everything was a complete and utter balls up - they made it worse.


Never trust lefties. Leave them to their sandals and lentils in stuffy academic settings - but they should NEVER be allowed to have real power in any way shape or form.