Greece...

buglawton

Seems that Greeks are now blocked from everyday international transactions including Paypal, and are thinking of turning to Bitcoin.

Thrugelmir

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Schauble has now stated that the Greek debt is not sustainable without a haircut, and he agrees with the IMF.

However, he also states that there is no way they can actually do that.

Maybe this is a sign of something to come? Can Schauble now agree to lend more even though he agrees the existing debt is not sustainable? Or is it a sign of something else?

The debt isn't the issue. Everybody knows that it will have to be written off. The real issue is that Greece needs to live within it's means like everybody else. That requires significant reform to the welfare state along with other fundamental changes to the economy. Like discussing yesterdays budget. The package comes as a whole and needs to be viewed in that context. Not nit picking at particular parts because one doesn't like.

mwpt

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The debt isn't the issue. Everybody knows that it will have to be written off. The real issue is that Greece needs to live within it's means

Agree.

like everybody else.

Whoa there... I say whoa. Who, what now?

Thrugelmir

mwpt wrote: »

Whoa there... I say whoa. Who, what now?

Population of Europe is ageing. Cost of supporting such a population is going to very costly. So the whole welfare system is going to have be managed very carefully. With people learning to to support themselves to a degree however small.

remorseless

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Population of Europe is ageing. Cost of supporting such a population is going to very costly. So the whole welfare system is going to have be managed very carefully. With people learning to to support themselves to a degree however small.

Indeed, not long ago even Italy changed their pension system from entitlements based on last salaries to contributions with individual accounts... not private like in Oz or the UK but going that way eventually!

onlyroz

I see that even the Financial Times has started using the ridiculous phrase "Grexit". What is the world coming to?

BlondeHeadOn

antrobus wrote: »

In other news, the NYT reports that as a result of capital controls, cargo containers are beginning to pile up on the docks at Piraeus, whilst some businesses have resorted to sending people on day trips with suitcases stuffed full of cash to pay foreign suppliers, in order to sidestep said controls.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/business/international/deal-or-no-deal-greece-faces-a-difficult-aftermath.html

^^^ I thought this was the usual way to do business in Greece ?

antrobus

Thrugelmir wrote: »

... The real issue is that Greece needs to live within it's means like everybody else....

Confirmation of the current status of Greece's ability to live within its means;

The state’s expired debts had risen above the 5-billion-euro level by the end of May, against 3.8 billion at the start of the year..... Despite the major increase in the debts of the state, the primary budget surplus amounted to just 557 million euros at end-May, against 1.1 billion euros at the same time last year.

State debts soar 32 pct in five months
http://www.ekathimerini.com/199250/article/ekathimerini/business/state-debts-soar-32-pct-in-five-months

Or in plain English; Greece only achieved a 'surplus' of €557m by means of not paying €1,200m worth of bills.

michaels

antrobus wrote: »

Confirmation of the current status of Greece's ability to live within its means;

The state’s expired debts had risen above the 5-billion-euro level by the end of May, against 3.8 billion at the start of the year..... Despite the major increase in the debts of the state, the primary budget surplus amounted to just 557 million euros at end-May, against 1.1 billion euros at the same time last year.

State debts soar 32 pct in five months
http://www.ekathimerini.com/199250/article/ekathimerini/business/state-debts-soar-32-pct-in-five-months

Or in plain English; Greece only achieved a 'surplus' of €557m by means of not paying €1,200m worth of bills.

And what primary surplus has been run in the other EUR states or indeed the UK over the last 10 years?

Or does it turn out that those profiligate tax dodging Greeks are actually running a much tighter fiscal regime than anywhere else in the EUR zone?

Generali

michaels wrote: »

And what primary surplus has been run in the other EUR states or indeed the UK over the last 10 years?

Or does it turn out that those profiligate tax dodging Greeks are actually running a much tighter fiscal regime than anywhere else in the EUR zone?

IIRC, in the last 50 financial years there have been 5 years in which the UK has run a surplus and 45 in which she has run a deficit.

Of course the Germans who are very keen on the Greeks running a surplus are, I believe, the biggest defaulters of the last 100 years in inflation adjusted terms.