MSE News: Government shrugs off Lords benefits defeat

JimmyTheWig

trynsave wrote: »

Think I read that the move would affect 67000 families. That sounds like a lot to me.

That figure sounds familiar.
There's 26 million households in Britain.

So we're talking about a quarter of one percent of households that this would affect.
Hardly sounds like it's going to save huge amounts of money to me!

Zziggi

trynsave wrote: »

You are funny.

I'm so pleased I made you laugh. But seriously how does it save the government money if a couple with a large number if kids "split up". Are you telling me that people severely hit by a benefits cut wouldn't do this??

I'm not affected either way by this however if I was part of a couple with 8 kids & was going to find my benefits slashed then i'd be telling him-indoors to "split up" with me & take half of our kids. Two lots of HB, IS, CTB will surely cost more than one lot of HB & CTB etc

Zziggi

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

That figure sounds familiar.
There's 26 million households in Britain.

So we're talking about a quarter of one percent of households that this would affect.
Hardly sounds like it's going to save huge amounts of money to me!

I don't think it'll save serious amounts of dosh either. But just look at the publicity and the messages that are being put "out there". People think every benefit claimant get £26k+ which perpetuates the myth that benefits are too generous. you state it'll affect 0.25 of families in the uk so there's not that many getting £26k+ now.

Dognobs

I put this elseware as well!

I hope the cap comes in including child benefit. They just had a woman on BBC news asking why she should give up a good standard on living!! The only worry is the fact that most of these people won't give up their fags, booze, iPhones and UGG boots and the kids end up suffering. And so what if people have to move to a cheaper part of town! I think councils should be out buying back ex council houses when they come up for sale and that way we stop privite landlords getting rich off the state!

24skins

Zziggi wrote: »

I'm so pleased I made you laugh. But seriously how does it save the government money if a couple with a large number if kids "split up". Are you telling me that people severely hit by a benefits cut wouldn't do this??

I'm not affected either way by this however if I was part of a couple with 8 kids & was going to find my benefits slashed then i'd be telling him-indoors to "split up" with me & take half of our kids. Two lots of HB, IS, CTB will surely cost more than one lot of HB & CTB etc

This is exactly what's going to happen - instead of one workless household costing £30k a year they'll split into two workless households costing £50k. I don't know what the solution is.

trynsave

I accept that not all claiming families will get the full whack, but the article states that the move will affect 67000 families.

67000 x £85pw = a very lot (joke). Seriously though, how can the country afford to keep giving it away?

I totally accept that the cuts will hurt those affected, but if working families have to, and can, manage on less, why would we not expect claiming families to do the same?

I think that the Welfare State should not be a net which traps its hapless victims, but instead at like a trampoline to cushion their fall before pushing them back up skywards to fend for themselves. I also would be open to the idea of working families who were living to their means and suddenly finding themselves on hard times, being able to claim more than the cap to allow them a small window of time to re-organise themselves eg move home, re-negotiate financial commitments etc etc.

I am not totally heartless, just keen for a bit of realism.

JimmyTheWig

Zziggi wrote: »

I don't think it'll save serious amounts of dosh either. But just look at the publicity and the messages that are being put "out there". People think every benefit claimant get £26k+ which perpetuates the myth that benefits are too generous. you state it'll affect 0.25 of families in the uk so there's not that many getting £26k+ now.

I completely agree, Zziggi. It's completely ideological.
As with the child benefit cut to higher rate tax payers, I bet it will cost more to administer than it will save.

Gingerbiscuit_2

I have spent all of today reading mis information about this cap. Government keeps saying if child ben is added to cap then it goes from 26k to 50! Really 24k in child benefit?? Thats if you had 30kids under the age of 19 not possible!!!!! Cap plus child benefit for 3 kids is 28,500.

I agree should be a cap but in London where rents are huge and lack of cheap housing where do you go if your 3 bedroom house and council tax is 380month, that leaves you £120 for family of 4 5 6 or more. The benefit cap for 4 bed is £450 based on lowest 30% of housing stock not that you can even afford that unless you can all live on £50 week.

Yes there are familes of 6-8 children but they are already living somewhere unless its council house then they are not going to be able to eat, yes OK lets start a new cap but its going be tough childhood if your parents cant afford to feed you, yes they should have thought of it first but I bit late now!

shedboy94

The scary thing is, when they want to put a cap of £26000, it means there are people getting more than that for esentially doing very little, or nothing at all. I am a civil servant on a 5 year pay freeze because the government say I earn too much......yet they turn around and say it is ok to pay out more in benefits in 1 year than I earn in almost 2 years......how can I be getting too much money for working FT, when others get far more than me for doing sod all? The figure of 67000 is just those receiving more than £26000......what about the rest receiving just under that figure....there are hundreds of thousands of others getting £15 - 25k a year......TAX FREE

shedboy94

Gingerbiscuit wrote: »

I have spent all of today reading mis information about this cap. Government keeps saying if child ben is added to cap then it goes from 26k to 50! Really 24k in child benefit?? Thats if you had 30kids under the age of 19 not possible!!!!! Cap plus child benefit for 3 kids is 28,500.

I agree should be a cap but in London where rents are huge and lack of cheap housing where do you go if your 3 bedroom house and council tax is 380month, that leaves you £120 for family of 4 5 6 or more. The benefit cap for 4 bed is £450 based on lowest 30% of housing stock not that you can even afford that unless you can all live on £50 week.

Yes there are familes of 6-8 children but they are already living somewhere unless its council house then they are not going to be able to eat, yes OK lets start a new cap but its going be tough childhood if your parents cant afford to feed you, yes they should have thought of it first but I bit late now!

How would a family with 8 kids not be able to eat.....they would get Child Tax Credit alone of over £20000 a year.......plus CB, HB, CTB, possibly WTC and wages if they were working the bare minimum hrs.