Blue badge meant nothing

choppersangel

Taffy, the precise wording on the ticket is 'A S Parking management & Enforcement Services'. The ticket itself has details explaining that the company is a trading name of Athens Security Services Ltd, Company No. 06379383. The dormancy issue is a weird one, I'll do some looking tomorrow. HO87, Google Streetview - wonders of the modern world eh? The signs are below the natural viewpoint from a car, so could be missed, although that's not our excuse. But the Armtrac link, now that's interesting. More to look into here. Until I saw your posts guys, I was considering a goodwill payment. Will sleep on it and decide after more thought!

...couldn't resist a bit more poking around before bedtime, 'dormant' simply means the company in question has had no appreciable transactions for a certain period. But, the signage may be an issue, since it clearly does not belong to the trading company.

taffy056

choppersangel wrote: »

I was considering a goodwill payment. Will sleep on it and decide after more thought!

Please don't pay anything to the parking company at all, they don't deserve anything from you.

taffy056

HO87 wrote: »

AS Parking Ltd are part of a trio of companies. Athens Security Ltd are currently subject of a proposal to strike off by Companies House because they have failed to file accounts and returns. AS Parking Ltd are currently listed as "Dormant" which is slightly interesting because according to their BPA AOS membership this is the trading arm. If the company is dormant how can they trade? Athens Security Services Ltd continue to operate.

Name & Registered Office:
A S PARKING LIMITED
UNIT 1A NEWQUAY ROAD
ST. COLUMB ROAD
ST. COLUMB
CORNWALL
ENGLAND
TR9 6PZ
Company No. 06405500
Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 22/10/2007
Country of Origin: United Kingdom

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/c974c8392ef7749313227aca27022f9e/compdetails

HO87

You are correct sir. Thank you for correcting my schoolboy error. The last set of accounts were made up for a dormant company but their current status is "Active" not, as I had it earlier "Dormant".

robredz

Who empties the ticket machine? Harbourmaster or PPC? All the paperwork points to an unenforceable penalty, Coupon-mad's suggestion of sending the £2 as a final settl;ement is the best, and then you ignore any correspondence from the PPC, as any loss to the landowner has been remedied, leaving no ground for any court action.

In any event if they were silly enough to try court the pdfs linked by HO87, constitute a robust defence, !!! they illustrate that the PPC is indeed attempting to enforce an unlawful private contractural penalty.

choppersangel

Further update: a relative of mine has been in touch to say that this problem is rife, she deals with A S Security frequently (can't repeat her pet name for them!) and that to pay anything is to accept the fine. I have an idea which feels better, in terms of who owns the space, what we actually did etc. I wonder whether to go to the ticket machine and pay (today) but not park, effectively covering the £1 cost of the parking episode on Saturday. I would then write an oh-so-nice letter to the owners, explaining that we omitted payment, enclosing a copy of the new ticket. I feel that the enforcement agency request should not be acknowledged at all, so would not mention this in the letter. We also are going to check whether the signs for parking and payment are currently owned by AS Services or still ArmTrac, as it could be said that AS are fraudulently ticketing... etc. The Harbour Master's letter, explaining who the security services are, does not really mean anything without at date, it also mentions 'fixed penalty', which as I now know is erroneous. Further thoughts much appreciated.

HO87

Making a "full and final" offer could work well although I would not recommend purchasing a parking ticket as a means of doing so as it would be too easy to argue that you had parked, so to speak. I would make the offer direct to AS Parking as opposed to the Harbourmaster as the clamping/ticket policy (see my previous links) make it more than clear that ASP have the whip hand in this regard, not them.

The fact that the documents are undated is, in my view, ample evidence that the arrangement lacks professionalism and/or proper consideration - and that is before you examine the content. In any event if the the current "enforcer" is AS Parking it is wholly reasonable to conclude that they are doing so in accordance with the policy drawn up with their name on it. In a civil court the burden of proof is "the balance of probabilities". Therefore, unless the Harbourmasters could show that they had been hoodwinked by ASP and, presumably Armtrac (the documents are otherwise identical), or that the document had been maliciously placed on their public-facing website then it can reasonably be concluded to be their policy.

Don't rush to set this document aside. It is a smoking gun (it clearly demonstrates the thinking of the controlling mind with regard to the purpose of the tickets) and, in this respect, is an "ace" - even if it is replaced. If indeed it is replaced it can be demonstrated that it was "in force" on the date of your alleged breach of contract. The use of the phrase "fixed penalty" is not just erroneous.

Judging by the wording of the byelaws I would venture to suggest that the ticket machines and parking tickets (from the machine as opposed to those issued for infractions) will be the property of the Harbourmasters.

Your letter, should you decide to make a "full and final" offer, will need to be well crafted.

choppersangel

Update: very carefully crafted letter, with cheque for £1 to the Harbour Commission, as they own the land. Advised by someone who deals with 'em regularly - feels quite good actually! I anticipate that the security firm will carry on to send us letters etc, but as the £1 is all that is owed, I understand there is no case for us to answer. Many thanks for advice, if interested, I'll update as and when anything else happens.

bluelight

All you are liable for is the parking fee you should have paid and no more. The penalty A S Parking are attempting to impose can be ignored. However, it may be advisable to write to the Falmouth Harbourmaster pointing out the legality of these "penalties" and that they can be held to be legally responsible for A S Parking's actions whilst operating on their land. Also, cite the Equality Act 2010 and that breaches of the Act can result in a fine of up to £20,000 and/or unlimited civil damages. The last thing Falmouth Harbourmaster would want is them being fined splashed across the front of the local newspaper.

choppersangel

Thanks bluelight, I'll send the letters off that apply directly to this parking charge. I'll wait to see what happens. The whole thing has already proved exhausting (I have MS, hence the blue badger situation) so I won't take on more if it's not necessary.