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grahamc2003

whasup wrote: »

Cold fusion is certainly high on the list of discussion subjects at CERN. It is the worlds leading research facility in 'fundamental physics' after all.

I hope I'm not being too pedantic, but just for clarity, Cern is the leading institution for high energy physics, which is obviously a subset of fundamental physics. Other subsets could be astronomy, but cern has little to do with that directly. That's not to say of the tens/hundreds of experimental and theoretical groups there at any time by thousands of researchers, none of them will be to do with non-high energy areas (the 'cloud' experiment is a good example). Cold fusion is of course low energy physiscs (that's where the 'cold' bit comes from). The accelerators used are used to generate the high energies required for the high energy physics done there - so obviously, most experiments useing those facilities will come under high energy physics. No doubt there'll be much interest in the behaviour of subatomic and other particles in lenr, but any experimentaion in that area will be minimal compared to the mainstream work at cern. Of course 'cold fusion' itself is a subset of lenr, and any teams using the facitlites for lenr research will probably be trying to add knowledge around lenr in general and not the cold fusion subset (unless somene has a project approved specifically to exmaine 'cold fusion' itself). Specifically regarding the ecat machine, I doubt many at cern would be interested in exploring the claimed phenominum if they don't have access to the inside of the box, but as I said, interested parties may try very hard to imply cern is interested or somehow an exploring partner etc. The ethos at cern is that there's no secrecy - everything is open, all worthy research reviewed and published and if you wish, you could go to Geneva and walk in their library and examine anything you wish. As for the secret internals of boxes ... well I can imagine what they think of that.

Of course it's a few years since I was there, so things may have changed and secret magic boxes may the the flavour of the month there - fundamental physicists often have such open minds anything is possible.

whasup

The maddest ideas sometimes turn out to be true. CERN isn't the place to be testing or building an E-CAT type device but if it does turn out to be a previously unknown physics you can bet it will want to know what's going on. In fact a quick google reveals that CERN is hosting a colloquium specifically to discuss "experimental progress in LENR" on March 22. I imagine the E-Cat will get a mention if not a full blown place on the agenda.

Kernel_Sanders

This scam has been highlighted on Radio 4's You and Yours programme today, stating that the units are actually dangerous, at least one of them catching fire. Victims are even being persuaded to hand over money to a firm who will get them compensation! You can hear the programme here http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cwszr/You_and_Yours_A_shortage_of_eggs_GPs_switching_to_cheaper_drugs_and_a_new_music_plan_for_schools/

albyota

Kernel_Sanders wrote: »

This scam has been highlighted on Radio 4's You and Yours programme today, stating that the units are actually dangerous, at least one of them catching fire. Victims are even being persuaded to hand over money to a firm who will get them compensation! You can hear the programme here http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cwszr/You_and_Yours_A_shortage_of_eggs_GPs_switching_to_cheaper_drugs_and_a_new_music_plan_for_schools/

You completely got the wrong end of the stick there Kernel, what that radio 4 report is on about has absolutely nothing to do with LENR, and I agree that the ,,,,'V phase'....? or whatever it is, IS a SCAM..!

ashleypride

albyota wrote: »

You completely got the wrong end of the stick there Kernel, what that radio 4 report is on about has absolutely nothing to do with LENR, and I agree that the ,,,,'V phase'....? or whatever it is, IS a SCAM..!

The so called power factor devices are a scam. But Vphase is voltage optimisation device and is not a scam - you just need to carefully work out how long it takes to break even. It wasn't worth it for me.

grahamc2003

whasup wrote: »

The maddest ideas sometimes turn out to be true. CERN isn't the place to be testing or building an E-CAT type device but if it does turn out to be a previously unknown physics you can bet it will want to know what's going on. In fact a quick google reveals that CERN is hosting a colloquium specifically to discuss "experimental progress in LENR" on March 22. I imagine the E-Cat will get a mention if not a full blown place on the agenda.

Well the obvious confusion between lenr (where some cern physicists may have an interest) and the ecat machine is just what the ecat designers love.

I'm not offering criticism or otherwise of the ecat machine, I'm just saying cern doesn't get involved with such things. They do pure research - applied research is below them (really). It's absolutely a total misinterpretation of what cern does to think that anything other than pure physics will be the main agenda of anything discussed. Applied physics (that is, building things) is for others of less ability, as they see it.

Anyhow, I previously requested a link to something indicating that the ecat is going to be discussed at cern, being the original motivation for me posting here. I believe there will be something out there trying to promote an image of ecat/cern collaboration or partnership or something, but I'm pretty certain that no such relationship exists in reality, only in some ecat promotion. I'd just like to read anything relevant, that's all. If such material isn't out there, then why does everyone think ecat is a big deal (or even a small deal) at cern?

Quite surprised at the thanks your post received - just shows people like to thank what they would like the reality to be rather than the reality itself!

zeupater

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Well the obvious confusion between lenr (where some cern physicists may have an interest) and the ecat machine is just what the ecat designers love.

I'm not offering criticism or otherwise of the ecat machine, I'm just saying cern doesn't get involved with such things. They do pure research - applied research is below them (really). It's absolutely a total misinterpretation of what cern does to think that anything other than pure physics will be the main agenda of anything discussed. Applied physics (that is, building things) is for others of less ability, as they see it.

Anyhow, I previously requested a link to something indicating that the ecat is going to be discussed at cern, being the original motivation for me posting here. I believe there will be something out there trying to promote an image of ecat/cern collaboration or partnership or something, but I'm pretty certain that no such relationship exists in reality, only in some ecat promotion. I'd just like to read anything relevant, that's all. If such material isn't out there, then why does everyone think ecat is a big deal (or even a small deal) at cern?

Quite surprised at the thanks your post received - just shows people like to thank what they would like the reality to be rather than the reality itself!

Hi

CERN website (LENR) .... https://search.cern.ch/Pages/Results.aspx?k=lenr
CERN website (Cold Fusion) .... https://search.cern.ch/Pages/results.aspx?k=cold%20fusion

Therefore CERN does monitor/discuss and act as a forum for LENR research, as would be expected, however, the particular session mentioned earlier in the thread regarding discussion of the e-cat device seems to simply be a general discussion/review of LENR experimental findings to date and is entitled "Overview of Theoretical and Experimental Progress in Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)" .... (https://espace.cern.ch/AVC-workspace/audiovisual/Lists/AV%20Calendar/DispForm.aspx?ID=5659) ... so I tend to agree that although there could be a small sideline discussion on e-cat, it will be very quickly passed over and there is no evidence of intent to run any program of e-cat testing at CERN ... this is just an attempt to hijack the name CERN in order to link credibility to what seems to be a simple scam, or ongoing joke, aimed at the gullible in society .....

HTH
Z

##Edit ... here is the link to the CERN webcast event for anyone interested ... http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=177379

grahamc2003

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

CERN website (LENR) .... https://search.cern.ch/Pages/Results.aspx?k=lenr
CERN website (Cold Fusion) .... https://search.cern.ch/Pages/results.aspx?k=cold%20fusion

Therefore CERN does monitor/discuss and act as a forum for LENR research, as would be expected, however, the particular session mentioned earlier in the thread regarding discussion of the e-cat device seems to simply be a general discussion/review of LENR experimental findings to date and is entitled "Overview of Theoretical and Experimental Progress in Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR)" .... (https://espace.cern.ch/AVC-workspace/audiovisual/Lists/AV%20Calendar/DispForm.aspx?ID=5659) ... so I tend to agree that although there could be a small sideline discussion on e-cat, it will be very quickly passed over and there is no evidence of intent to run any program of e-cat testing at CERN ... this is just an attempt to hijack the name CERN in order to link credibility to what seems to be a simple scam, or ongoing joke, aimed at the gullible in society .....

HTH
Z

##Edit ... here is the link to the CERN webcast event for anyone interested ... http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=177379

Thanks for the related links which, as you say, have expected content.

If anyone has links (and I'm pretty certain they must be out there) implying cern has any sort of relationship with ecat, or there are discussions/research or anything else linking the two, I'd be interested in reading them. Depending exactly on what those links state, I'd expect any relationship to be exagerated at best, and purely fictional 'marketting' at worst.

In the mean time, it's probably sensible to not associate any cern publication references of lenr/cold fusion research or discussion with ecat - such asscociation being, as you say or imply, probably fictional for marketting purposes, (from the evidence so far - I'm open and eager to see more evidence).

EricMears

It doesn't really matter if CERN are or aren't testing the thing - or indeed if anyone else is. There may well be folk about who think "(somebody) is testing it - so it must work" but I doubt any of them will be reading this website ! Those who have noticed that (somebody) is supposed to be testing it are rather more likely to wait for the report and if no such tests are in hand that will of course be a very long time.

I'm waiting for a report from some reputable body - or better still some recommendations from satisfied local customers - before I even think of getting excited

Kernel_Sanders

albyota wrote: »

You completely got the wrong end of the stick there Kernel, what that radio 4 report is on about has absolutely nothing to do with LENR, and I agree that the ,,,,'V phase'....? or whatever it is, IS a SCAM..!

Whoops, sorry everyone!