AVIVA International With-Profit Bond

2010

dunstonh wrote: »

I said most. Not all. Again, typical of your blinkered approach. You want it to be black and white. I say it isnt and that its more shades of grey and you accuse me of being biased and blinkered. Crazy. You are the one that cannot understand that some of these plans are good and worth keeping or that some of them are average or that some of them are dire.

If you think that me saying that each one should be viewed on its own merits and a decision made individually makes me biased or blinkered then I accept that accusation willingly. I would rather take a balanced an individual view than be stupid and take decisions on the basis of what someone else may have.

Instead of ranting and frothing at the mouth why don`t you respond to the facts in post # 25.

Instead of using your stock answer to me and darkpool that we "don`t understand the issues".

dunstonh

Instead of using your stock answer to me and darkpool that we "don`t understand the issues".

You dont.
You dont understand that investment returns can be volatile and provide more or less than savings accounts.
You dont understand that some WP funds can be good, some dire, some average
You accuse anyone trying to provide balance as being biased.

Instead of ranting and frothing at the mouth why don`t you respond to the facts in post # 25.

Cant see any facts in post 25

Old_Slaphead

dunstonh wrote: »

If you assume that yield pays the annual bonus (it doesnt but its a similar figure in this case) then that still leaves you over 5% down. I just checked a few Aviva plans and they are all down around 4-5%. The figure is relatively consistent with market returns.
If you look at the long term returns on the balanced managed fund, you tend to find the WP fund is not too different.

I must have a dodgy pension plan then. In 10 years to Jan 2012 my Aviva Balanced Managed Fund has gone up 61.5% whereas and the WP Fund is up 37.6%.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

it is guaranteed as long as the provider is solvent to pay it. The Eq Life issue, whilst not fun for Eq life policy holders with GARs, did put in place requirements that meant that a repeat was not seen with other providers.

See what I mean about lack of balance. You are clearly biased and lack the ability to read correctly if that is the opinion you have taken. Once you take your chip off your shoulder and stop being so biased and fixated, you will realise that I have indicated nothing of the sort..

so what about the annual bonuses each year that are reduced by a MVR? you really think it right that bonuses are just clawed back? Especially when there has been no recent stockmarket fall?

i read some of your posts and I think you know your stuff, then I read what you are writing here and i think you are just a one man IFA public relations machine. i would say public opinion is that WP has had it's day.

I'm honestly interested, has any reader here been happy with the results of a recent WP policy?

dunstonh

I must have a dodgy pension plan then. In 10 years to Jan 2012 my Aviva Balanced Managed Fund has gone up 61.5% whereas and the WP Fund is up 37.6%.

You need to inlcude 1998 to 2001 as looking at the last 10 sees the recovery after the that crash but not the downturn before. If you take the usual lag with WP, you you would expect unit linked to beat WP in that period.

so what about the annual bonuses each year that are reduced by a MVR?

Annual bonuses are not explictly reduced by MVR.

you really think it right that bonuses are just clawed back?

Yes. If you invest, you accept that it will go down as well as up at times. Unless the contract says it is guaranteed or has guaranteed exit points then it would be foolish to assume it is guaranteed.

Especially when there has been no recent stockmarket fall?

You need to put that in context as there has been a recent stockmarket fall. August say a 20% drop on the markets.

i read some of your posts and I think you know your stuff, then I read what you are writing here and i think you are just a one man IFA public relations machine

Its nothing about public relations or anything of the such. I just refuse to make blanket assumption which could see valid and suitable options, even if its for a minority, be ruled out. What if someone who has a good WP fund with decent features and terms reads the threads without any balance and assumes theirs is naff and pulls out? Its better to say they should review it and compare against alternatives and if still suitable, keep it or if not, change it.

i would say public opinion is that WP has had it's day.

It has. It is woefully obsolete by modern standards. However, not everything old is bad.

I'm honestly interested, has any reader here been happy with the results of a recent WP policy?

By talking recent, then you are really only looking at Pru and Aviva and both of them have turned in pretty decent returns in tricky times. If you are talking recent as in recent returns on a 20 year old product then there is a much higher chance that you would not be happy. However, if the product had a guaranteed minimum maturity value or guaranteed annuity rates AND YOU KNEW IT DID (many dont) then you would still be happy. Sure, you always want more but that doesnt mean its bad.

atush

2010 wrote: »

Instead of ranting and frothing at the mouth why don`t you respond to the facts in post # 25.

Instead of using your stock answer to me and darkpool that we "don`t understand the issues".

He shouldn't have to, as most of us readers out there understand the issues and they aren't black and white.

I myself hold 2 WP investments (out of many so just a small proportion) and neither has lost money and one has made much more than a bank deposit would have. The other abt the same.

I don't recommend peoplebuy them now either (mine were bought many years ago) but that doesn't mean that I don't know there are good and bad one. So, you got a bad one. I was sorry for you but not so sure now.

Ifts

darkpool wrote: »

Any investors with WPs happy with their returns?

Here is my experience of having a WP policy with Scottish Widows (cut & pasted from another thread):

I got one that matures Oct 2012. My one is with Scottish Widows, on the paperwork it states its a Versatile Endowment plan (with-profits policy). I took it out nearly 20 years ago. I pay £50 each month into it, at the 10 year date I did have the option to cash it in early but I left it to run its course.
Next year at the maturity date, I would have paid £12000 into it (12x50 pa x 20 yrs). When I took it out, it had a Guaranteed Cash Benefit of £10,220.00 + any annual bonuses + any final bonus if I held it for the full 20 years. It did also provide death benefit during the term of £9000.
I don't know exactly what mine will return at the maturity date next year (21/10/2012), but my 2010 Bonus Notice states: Total Guaranteed Benefit = £13,521.12 (inc £10.220.00 Guaranteed Cash Benefit, £3,217.84 Existing Bonus, £83.28 2010 Bonus), so if I'm right I think they will apply another bonus for 2011 plus one for 2012 (whatever that may be), and possibly a final bonus at the maturity date.

So in October this year Il know the total return I will get back. Also its not a lot but it did also provide death benefit during the term of £9000.

As an added bonus due to the Scottish Widows Demutualisation, back in 2000 when the insurer Scottish Widows was sold to Lloyds Bank, I was eligible for a windfall payment which I received some 10 years ago now which was paid out into a SW VIP Premier Account for me, IIRC it was a few thousand pounds.

2010

atush wrote: »

He shouldn't have to, as most of us readers out there understand the issues and they aren't black and white.

I myself hold 2 WP investments (out of many so just a small proportion) and neither has lost money and one has made much more than a bank deposit would have. The other abt the same.

I don't recommend peoplebuy them now either (mine were bought many years ago) but that doesn't mean that I don't know there are good and bad one. So, you got a bad one. I was sorry for you but not so sure now.

Having held a WP bond for 10 years, traded shares over the years, seen markets rising, markets falling, dot com boom and bust, etc., I hardly need to be told "you don`t understand the issues" about investing,

If you read my post # 28 I stated that I didn`t lose any money, in fact I made money, but I could have made more with an ordinary run of the mill fixed rate bond with no risks involved.
I just stated the facts that I could have made more with a savings account.
Sympathy doesn`t come into investing, if you take the risk you either make some or lose some.
Of course if you`re really smart you spread the risk.

Linton

I have held a Pru WP policy for almost 10 years. It has averaged 5.1%, tax free, despite all the economic storms in the mean time. So I am happy.

For comparison, the HSBC FTSE100 tracker has averaged 3.1% in the same period.

atush

2010 wrote: »

Having held a WP bond for 10 years, traded shares over the years, seen markets rising, markets falling, dot com boom and bust, etc., I hardly need to be told "you don`t understand the issues" about investing,

If you read my post # 28 I stated that I didn`t lose any money, in fact I made money, but I could have made more with an ordinary run of the mill fixed rate bond with no risks involved.
I just stated the facts that I could have made more with a savings account.
Sympathy doesn`t come into investing, if you take the risk you either make some or lose some.
Of course if you`re really smart you spread the risk.

you don't understand if you are painting all WP funds as BAD. You don't have to castigate someone who is an IFA who points out there are al kinds of WP some good, some OK and some ugly.

Spreading risk is smart. Yes you might have made more if you had chosen antoerh route. But if you are as sophisticated an investor as you say, you should have done more research or like me and others taken your bad decison on the chin.