Petition to get student loans for postgrad study

studentphil

cupid_stunt, you should not worry if many more people do PHDs as if you are the best then you will get the job anyway-- least that is the theory.

cupid_s

Karnam wrote:

also its worth noting that just because poorer people can do PG by getting themselves into debt, working themselves to the bone and sacrificing thier grades while richer people walk in and pay thier way through it easy peasy, doesnt mean its fair.

But surely it's always going to be like that. It's the same with undergrad degrees. I had to work in the first 2 years to get extra money. Many people I knew didn't need to as they were rich. So they could have spent more time studying.

If extra loans are available then the poorer students will still be getting themselves into debt. Short of bringing back full non repayable grants that are means tested how can you make it as easy for the poorer students?

studentphil

Karnam wrote:

it should be noted that CDL are only available for vocational courses or courses where you can justify how it will help your career. which means 98% of humanities courses are completely out of the question, particularly research PG.

my partner got a CDL as he did a computing course but i have been told i cant have one cause i am humanties.

also its worth noting that just because poorer people can do PG by getting themselves into debt, working themselves to the bone and sacrificing thier grades while richer people walk in and pay thier way through it easy peasy, doesnt mean its fair.

That probably is the danger that PG study could become for rich kids only and funding is set against people who make great progress late in their degree with you needing a first to get it (the weighting of the second year hugely counts against people who make vast progress as a finalist)
But rich people will always have an advantage as far as I can see.

studentphil

A degree will cost you 21k in debt now.
Plus 10k debt for a Masters
plus 25k debt for a PHD

50-60k of debt puts that out of the reach of the vast majority unless you are dead lucky and can nip in for funding/

cupid_s

studentphil wrote:

cupid_stunt, you should not worry if many more people do PHDs as if you are the best then you will get the job anyway-- least that is the theory.

but what about those people who aren't the best for the job. Maybe they have only published 3 papers not four or maybe performed slightly worse than one of the other 8 people at interview. Do they not deserve a job?

Karnam

extra loans are not an ideological solution but a 'patch' that will at least enable poorer students to get onto PG study at the v least.

applying for SLC debt is extremely different to applying for bank debt to fund PG study. bank debt is extremely subjective and based on life style, wheras SLC is based on what YOU want to do. and that is surely the best reason to allow someone to take up debt, that they WANT to do PG study, not because thier mortgage/partner's income/course being relevent to thier career dictates.

by allowing the SLC system to be extended to PG students, you are allowing poorer students or people who are at least not able to borrow the money from banks/family/trust fund to somehow get some money to do PG study.

Im not saying the SLC criticia should be the same as UG, I'm just saying it is a resource that is urgently needed.

studentphil

cupid_stunt wrote:

but what about those people who aren't the best for the job. Maybe they have only published 3 papers not four or maybe performed slightly worse than one of the other 8 people at interview. Do they not deserve a job?

I am sure with a PHD you will still get a great job even if it is not the one you dream of.

cupid_s

studentphil wrote:

I am sure with a PHD you will still get a great job even if it is not the one you dream of.

But that is my exact point. If so many more people have PhDs then most people wont have a job at all as there wont be enough jobs for everyone. Whether it's one they dream of or not. I don't care if I get my dream job. I just want a job and that's difficult enough as it is without there being twice as many people applying for each job I apply for.

Karnam

surely having a 'good' job and pushing yourself through a PhD are not the same thing?

a PhD should be completely motivated by a personal innate desire to research, learn and experiment (with ideas or whatnot), rather than a desire to get a 'good' job.

the career thing should surely be a completely seperate issue? i sure as hell dont think my PG course will get me anywhere near a good job. already have the lidl's graduate scheme forms

studentphil

cupid_stunt wrote:

But that is my exact point. If so many more people have PhDs then most people wont have a job at all as there wont be enough jobs for everyone. Whether it's one they dream of or not. I don't care if I get my dream job. I just want a job and that's difficult enough as it is without there being twice as many people applying for each job I apply for.

I have every sympathy but the same is true for UG degrees too. We all want a decent job that we might like. So the problem is universal from BA to PHD.

Maybe all government funding for HE should be scraped and just let the best fight it out for funding from UG to PHD.