Petition to get student loans for postgrad study

pinkfluffybabe

studentphil wrote:

I find the whole university thing a bit daft anyway. Lecturers get very upset if they get more than 3 hours worth of teaching a week as it stops them researching. What is this need to have a huge list of publications that are not very original or don't say anything that special?

I thought the idea of publishing was when you have something really new and interesting you write an article on it rather than being in the continous need to publish just because everyone else does.

Academics are under a LOT of pressure to generate income - thats why they need to keep researching.

melancholly

studentphil wrote:

I really wish you were not so negative about undergraduates. Until you get your lecturing post you are still one of us, a student.

I do however wish you well in getting published and you just have to keep battling as the end result will be worth it.

try teaching people who haven't been to the lectures and turn up without anything to write on or a pen, who stink of alcohol and fall asleep 3 minutes in. in general, a lot of undergrads don't really want to be there. and that ruins it for the ones that do! my post said 'in general' and i dare you to find anyone who teaches in a university who feels that over 50% of the students they teach really make an effort. you may make a huge effort - there are undoubtably students that do (most people who do phds would have been in that minority group), but unfortunately the majority just don't have any kind of committment to their degree.

as someone who does clearly try, it's bizarre that you're defending people who are taking up valuable time at your expense! while i was an undergrad there were a lot of people who didn't bother and i found it frustrating as they took up time with staff that other could have used more effectively. i'm not negative to all undergrads, i'm negative to the loud, demanding majority who don't really know why they're there.

i also think you cannot compare a postgrad with an undergrad - i work all year round (if phd students are lucky they get 4 weeks off a year - but who really can afford to take that?!). we teach and do admin work for the department and are involved in the same research and publishing activities as academic staff. we are still students to a degree, but the different in university involvement between an undergrad and a postgrad student is vast. to be putting both types of students in the same basket has to mean you very much underestimate the level of commitment that phd students give!

the need to publish btw, is entirely due to the RAE, the next one being due next year. this is the main determining factor to how much government funding universities get, so in most universities right now, it is the most important thing going on for staff. most academics would agree that the RAE is not particularly effective and the way in which publications are ranked can be very unfair (e.g. government reports get very little credit even though being invited to do one inherently means you are the bets expert they can find). but while the RAE determines funding, publishing is what everyone has to do!

http://www.rae.ac.uk/

studentphil

pinkfluffybabe wrote:

Academics are under a LOT of pressure to generate income - thats why they need to keep researching.

You look at so much in Journals and it is rubbish. A literature review of work produced in the last 10 years, or really off the wall topics that all most no one is interested, or a bit of rework of existing material.

Published journals should only contain stuff that is new and fresh as that is meant to be the idea of them.

pinkfluffybabe

studentphil wrote:

You look at so much in Journals and it is rubbish. A literature review of work produced in the last 10 years, or really off the wall topics that all most no one is interested, or a bit of rework of existing material.

Published journals should only contain stuff that is new and fresh as that is meant to be the idea of them.

Academic journals are peer reviewed by specialists in the particular field. You might think they are rubbish, but they wouldn't have gotten into a journal if they were. New and fresh learning has to take into consideration previous theories and knowledge, if only to compare and contrast.

studentphil

melancholly wrote:

try teaching people who haven't been to the lectures and turn up without anything to write on or a pen, who stink of alcohol and fall asleep 3 minutes in. in general, a lot of undergrads don't really want to be there. and that ruins it for the ones that do! my post said 'in general' and i dare you to find anyone who teaches in a university who feels that over 50% of the students they teach really make an effort. you may make a huge effort - there are undoubtably students that do (most people who do phds would have been in that minority group), but unfortunately the majority just don't have any kind of committment to their degree.

as someone who does clearly try, it's bizarre that you're defending people who are taking up valuable time at your expense! while i was an undergrad there were a lot of people who didn't bother and i found it frustrating as they took up time with staff that other could have used more effectively. i'm not negative to all undergrads, i'm negative to the loud, demanding majority who don't really know why they're there.

i also think you cannot compare a postgrad with an undergrad - i work all year round (if phd students are lucky they get 4 weeks off a year - but who really can afford to take that?!). we teach and do admin work for the department and are involved in the same research and publishing activities as academic staff. we are still students to a degree, but the different in university involvement between an undergrad and a postgrad student is vast. to be putting both types of students in the same basket has to mean you very much underestimate the level of commitment that phd students give!

the need to publish btw, is entirely due to the RAE, the next one being due next year. this is the main determining factor to how much government funding universities get, so in most universities right now, it is the most important thing going on for staff. most academics would agree that the RAE is not particularly effective and the way in which publications are ranked can be very unfair (e.g. government reports get very little credit even though being invited to do one inherently means you are the bets expert they can find). but while the RAE determines funding, publishing is what everyone has to do!

http://www.rae.ac.uk/

I have never known anyone turn up drunk or smelling of drink. Most people do go to lectures, hand work in on time, try to do readings for tutorials.
So all I can say is your Undergrads must be bad!

I think when you are 18-21 especially when you have to study many boring modules that do not really interest you that everything else seems more fun.
The great advantage with a PHD is you are in your mid 20's or older and it is a 100 per cent completely on a topic you like-- so I can see why PHD students are more committed.

It is sad that it is research at any price regardless of quality but that is the market system for you.

studentphil

pinkfluffybabe wrote:

Academic journals are peer reviewed by specialists in the particular field. You might think they are rubbish, but they wouldn't have gotten into a journal if they were. New and fresh learning has to take into consideration previous theories and knowledge, if only to compare and contrast.

Put it like this if we turned out two old articles stuck together for an esay we would get failed. There is no problem in writing about old stuff and I accept it is needed, but surely there should be something fresh in an article for it to get published

pinkfluffybabe

studentphil wrote:

Put it like this if we turned out two old articles stuck together for an esay we would get failed. There is no problem in writing about old stuff and I accept it is needed, but surely there should be something fresh in an article for it to get published

Who does this? Articles do need to have fresh knowledge to be published.

studentphil

pinkfluffybabe wrote:

Who does this? Articles do need to have fresh knowledge to be published.

When journals were first created the idea of them was to tell the world about your new knowledge that you have created. The idea of them was not to rehash old stuff to make a few quid. Just a touch of oringinality and newness of ideas in journals would be nice more often that is all

pinkfluffybabe

studentphil wrote:

When journals were first created the idea of them was to tell the world about your new knowledge that you have created. The idea of them was not to rehash old stuff to make a few quid. Just a touch of oringinality and newness of ideas in journals would be nice more often that is all

But they do have new ideas and concepts - that is the point. What journals are you reading that rehash old ideas? In what way are you qualified to critique the work of experts in your field?

elisebutt65

studentphil wrote:

When journals were first created the idea of them was to tell the world about your new knowledge that you have created. The idea of them was not to rehash old stuff to make a few quid. Just a touch of oringinality and newness of ideas in journals would be nice more often that is all

Aaargh Phil!!! Will you stop being so flaming negative about everything!!!! My dissertation actually uses journals and textbooks from over 25 years ago as it is a major work on the evolution of customer buying behaviour!!!!! :wall:

So yes these old journals are of use to me - and costing me a fortune cos I can't get them on-line!!!!

Sometimes you need to know how things used to be, so you can try and predict how they will be - IYSWIM???


And even though I've never turned up drunk - I have missed a lecture due to being paralytic at Xmas - my mates did go - being equally paralytic though!!! And I'm a responsible parent - normally!!!! It's good to do the student thing once in a while and I still get better grades than you You don't always need to put something fresh into an article but sometimes you can look at data in a different way than is conventional!!!