Petition to get student loans for postgrad study

cupid_s

I don't think people doing PhDs should be eligible for a loan. I did a masters and am currently doing a PhD and the main thing I find which puts me above most people in terms of qualifications is that hardly anyone does postgraduate degrees really.

Look at how many people do undergrad degrees now as it's so easy to fund them and everyone can do one regardless of money and often academic ability. Undergrad degrees have become devalued and jobs which once required only a levels require a degree now. When I graduated with a first in my undergrad degree all the jobs related to my field which I wanted to do, and required a 2:1 or above, were paying less than 13k a year. Because they don't need to as there are so many people out there with the qualifications to do it that about 80 people were still applying for every job paying 13k!

There are only a certain amount of jobs for which postgraduate degrees are necessary. At the moment in my field anyway, more students are graduating each year with PhDs than there are jobs for them to do. If people can get loans to help them study further more and more people will do it. Then when you end up with your PhD it will hardly be worth the paper its written on as so many other people will have one.

Venny

Despite the politics outlined above my current situation as an undergraduate and potential future masters student has drawn me to the conclusion of signing

Karnam

by your standing then cupid we would move out of a merocratic society and only the rich would be able to pay for PG study and to get good jobs paying over 13k and it would be a horrible cycle with the rich getting richer

melancholly

it's odd - i posted this thread because of all the people who have written on here complaining about the situation for postgrads and money. i never really expected it to be contraversial!!

few people will be bothered to do a phd - you can coast through a lot of undergrad degrees and get a pass; even very lazy people manage. the same just isn't true of a phd. it takes hard work and commitment and i don't know anyone who has done one who would put themselves through it again. i'm in my third year of one and have spent the last month on the verge of losing it - i cry at the slightest thing and am so stressed i'm having trouble sleeping. it's not something you just get for rocking up for three years. i want to finish it (i can't wait to finish!) and i will have earned it. it's not something you do just to put off getting a job because you work 60/70+ hour weeks for peanuts (or nothing if you aren't lucky enough to be funded), try to write papers, fit in teaching to generally lots of undergrads who would sooner be in the pub, read stupid numbers of other people's papers and then spend the last few months praying that no-one else publishes anything too similar to your stuff. you have to WANT to do it, really really want to. cupid-stunt - when you are another 2 years in, your view is likely to change. there are a lot of people who drop out from phds or end up with mphils..... anyway, rant over!

studentphil

melancholly wrote:

it's odd - i posted this thread because of all the people who have written on here complaining about the situation for postgrads and money. i never really expected it to be contraversial!!

few people will be bothered to do a phd - you can coast through a lot of undergrad degrees and get a pass; even very lazy people manage. the same just isn't true of a phd. it takes hard work and commitment and i don't know anyone who has done one who would put themselves through it again. i'm in my third year of one and have spent the last month on the verge of losing it - i cry at the slightest thing and am so stressed i'm having trouble sleeping. it's not something you just get for rocking up for three years. i want to finish it (i can't wait to finish!) and i will have earned it. it's not something you do just to put off getting a job because you work 60/70+ hour weeks for peanuts (or nothing if you aren't lucky enough to be funded), try to write papers, fit in teaching to generally lots of undergrads who would sooner be in the pub, read stupid numbers of other people's papers and then spend the last few months praying that no-one else publishes anything too similar to your stuff. you have to WANT to do it, really really want to. cupid-stunt - when you are another 2 years in, your view is likely to change. there are a lot of people who drop out from phds or end up with mphils..... anyway, rant over!

I really wish you were not so negative about undergraduates. Until you get your lecturing post you are still one of us, a student.

I do however wish you well in getting published and you just have to keep battling as the end result will be worth it.

pinkfluffybabe

studentphil wrote:

I really wish you were not so negative about undergraduates. Until you get your lecturing post you are still one of us, a student.

I do however wish you well in getting published and you just have to keep battling as the end result will be worth it.

No one is being negative about undergraduates. It is generally acknowledged that an undergraduate degree doesn't need as much hard work as a PhD.

studentphil

pinkfluffybabe wrote:

No one is being negative about undergraduates. It is generally acknowledged that an undergraduate degree doesn't need as much hard work as a PhD.

It was said UG would rather be down the pub than in lectures. Post grads do not kill themselves that much as they are often sat with their feet up drinking coffee-- so an equal criticism could be made of SOME PG just as it can be of SOME UGs.

pinkfluffybabe

studentphil wrote:

It was said UG would rather be down the pub than in lectures. Post grads do not kill themselves that much as they are often sat with their feet up drinking coffee-- so an equal criticism could be made of SOME PG just as it can be of SOME UGs.

That may be the case, but it doesn't change the level of commitment that is required to do a PhD is greater than that of an undergraduate degree.

studentphil

pinkfluffybabe wrote:

That may be the case, but it doesn't change the level of commitment that is required to do a PhD is greater than that of an undergraduate degree.

I accept that and until such time as I do a PHD I will take your word on that.

studentphil

I find the whole university thing a bit daft anyway. Lecturers get very upset if they get more than 3 hours worth of teaching a week as it stops them researching. What is this need to have a huge list of publications that are not very original or don't say anything that special?

I thought the idea of publishing was when you have something really new and interesting you write an article on it rather than being in the continous need to publish just because everyone else does.