water softner help in chosing and is this true

cyrix2000

Doc_N wrote: »

Loving that one! Never heard of that term - and neither, it seems, has Google.

I spoke to a senior executive at Ecowater to check this, and was told that apart from the more sophisticated programmer and the case, the machines are pretty much identical. Same manufacturer, same mechanical parts, same operation, but a more sophisticate programmer and a rather longer warranty.

Yes I contacted Tapworks and got the reply that the differences between the two products are:

- Ecowater units have a salt alarm and salt monitor
- Ecowater units can have Wifi as an add on
- Ecowater units are sold through approved dealers (where supply and install come as a package)
- Both Ecowater and Tapworks units are metered.
- Both use tablet salt so running cost would work out the same.
- Both units come with a 2 years warranty (when installed in the UK)

So the only relevant difference I think is the salt alarm and monitor.

@Doc N: how does it work for you, how you you realise the unit is running out of salt if there is no alarm for it?

Boiler_Expert

If not too late ....Call Harvey softeners....UK's largest manufacturer, they have a unique patented system which guarantees you will have ZERO Scale, if you buy the more expensive Kinetico you will still get a tiny bit of scale, the whole point of spending lots of money on a water softener is too have no limescale. I hope this helps
I not work for any water softener companies and am completely independent, I advise ITV C4 & BBC Rogue Traders.

Boiler_Expert

If not too late ....Call Harvey softeners....UK's largest manufacturer, they have a unique patented system which guarantees you will have ZERO Scale, if you buy the more expensive Kinetico you will still get a tiny bit of scale, the whole point of spending lots of money on a water softener is too have no limescale. I hope this helps
I not work for any water softener companies and am completely independent, I advise ITV C4 & BBC Rogue Traders.

Doc_N

Boiler_Expert wrote: »

If not too late ....Call Harvey softeners....UK's largest manufacturer, they have a unique patented system which guarantees you will have ZERO Scale, if you buy the more expensive Kinetico you will still get a tiny bit of scale, the whole point of spending lots of money on a water softener is too have no limescale. I hope this helps
I not work for any water softener companies and am completely independent, I advise ITV C4 & BBC Rogue Traders.

Boiler_Expert wrote: »

If not too late ....Call Harvey softeners....UK's largest manufacturer, they have a unique patented system which guarantees you will have ZERO Scale, if you buy the more expensive Kinetico you will still get a tiny bit of scale, the whole point of spending lots of money on a water softener is too have no limescale. I hope this helps
I not work for any water softener companies and am completely independent, I advise ITV C4 & BBC Rogue Traders.

So good you posted it twice? Sorry - Harvey softeners are just too expensive for what they are. They don't offer value for money.

Doc_N

cyrix2000 wrote: »

Yes I contacted Tapworks and got the reply that the differences between the two products are:

- Ecowater units have a salt alarm and salt monitor
- Ecowater units can have Wifi as an add on
- Ecowater units are sold through approved dealers (where supply and install come as a package)
- Both Ecowater and Tapworks units are metered.
- Both use tablet salt so running cost would work out the same.
- Both units come with a 2 years warranty (when installed in the UK)

So the only relevant difference I think is the salt alarm and monitor.

@Doc N: how does it work for you, how you you realise the unit is running out of salt if there is no alarm for it?

Worse than I thought - there used to be a 5 year warranty for all the extra money you paid for one branded 'Ecowater' as against 'Tapworks'.

I suppose having been using softeners in a domestic environment for more than 30 years I've picked up a few wrinkles on softeners, and I've learned that they're basically 25% manufacturing cost and 75% smoke and mirrors. Essentially, they're very simple (not a lot to go wrong), cost very little to produce, but are sold at ridiculous prices because of high margins at various points in the chain.

Ecowater sell their machines in two ways. The Ecowater-branded machines are sold through high-margin outlets at high prices to those who know no better. That, once upon a time, included me. Their Tapworks machines, however, are sold through low-margin outlets (including eBay) to the trade, and to people who want Ecowater quality but aren't prepared to pay ramped up prices.

There are differences, but as you say it's essentially the salt alarm and salt monitor - neither of which are actually needed for most people. And Wifi is a bit like having Wifi on a fridge - why would you?

Softeners like the AD11 (around £438) hold a lot of salt in the body of the softener. I fill mine about every 2 months - a larger family would mean filling it perhaps monthly. Every 4 days or so (more frequently for a larger family) the softener will regenerate, using that stored salt. It's an entirely automatic process, carried out in the middle of the night, or whenever you want it to be, and you don't need a monitor or alarm. Just check the softener every month or so and top it up with salt if it looks to need it.

I'd love to know whether you got any justification for that "total gard ester" nonsense. See what I mean about smoke and mirrors?

cyrix2000

Doc_N wrote: »

I'd love to know whether you got any justification for that "total gard ester" nonsense. See what I mean about smoke and mirrors?

I asked him but didn't receive a reply yet...

David_Aston

"@Doc N: how does it work for you, how you you realise the unit is running out of salt if there is no alarm for it? "

I appreciate you asked our number one guy on this subject, however, just to say, that I peer into the salt tank of my Monarch Midi, under the sink, when I remember. Periodically, bring in the bag of salt tablets, and top up. We be very lax of me to let it run out.

cyrix2000

Mystery of "total gard ester" solved: he got a victim of predictive text and wanted to write: it uses "total hard water" to regenerate and that's why it needs servicing (doesn't make more sense to me, as both systems are single tank ones, so both should use hard water to regenerate...)

Doc_N

cyrix2000 wrote: »

Mystery of "total gard ester" solved: he got a victim of predictive text and wanted to write: it uses "total hard water" to regenerate and that's why it needs servicing (doesn't make more sense to me, as both systems are single tank ones, so both should use hard water to regenerate...)

As you say, it still makes no sense. He's talking rubbish - but that's pretty typical, sadly.

Most people know very little about softeners, or how they work, and they've traditionally been grossly overpriced at retail level. Ecowater dealers, for obvious reasons, want to maintain that myth, and they'll tell you any nonsense under the sun to try to persuade you that there are good reasons for paying three times the price of a Tapworks machine that's actually pretty much identical, apart from the programmer.

bricethurin

I have been told that metered water softener have a forced regeneration every 4 days for most water softener. This is a regeneration occurring if you have not reached the total water capacity of your metered water softener within this 4 days time limit. My guess is that it is for hygienic reasons. I believe this is something to bear in mind if you leaving in a small house and have a low water consumption as you are more likely to hit the time limit than to use the full water capacity of your water softener.