water softner help in chosing and is this true

moonrakerz

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320165884696&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr8_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=320165884668&itemcount=8&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Or if you don't want to buy over e-bay:-

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav/nav.jsp?forceStaticLeftNav=true&action=detail&fh_view=detail&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB&fh_secondid=9271767

I got the B & Q one because I knew that if it didn't fit the small space I had available then B & Q would take it back with no problems.



I really must reiterate - it is impossible to run a softener in hard water area and use only 25 kg of salt a year - anyone who says that you can is either deluded or a liar ! If it is a salesman saying that, then the latter applies. Even the spec for the machine says that only applies at 1lb per regeneration. If you need that little salt to regenerate, there must be serious doubts as to whether a softener is needed at all.

[Deleted User]

Forgive me, but I'm not trying to dis you guys :A I'm just trying to get a water softener and this is the best place for money savign tips :j

I'm not in a position where I can do it myself, so I have to rely on competent people to install it. All the plumbers I've contacted either won't install it because there's not enough profit or want to charge £350+VAT just to install the softener and I'd also need a sparky to install the mains spur socket.

I think there are benefits dealing with one contact point - then the plumber can't blame the supplier and vice versa.

I live in a house with 5 adults who want baths every night and showers every morning in an area (Malmesbury) that Wessesx Water say is 'very hard with an average calcium carbonate reading of 303 mg/l' and I've already had to change the immersion tank - God knows what the rest of the system is like.

Whatever they say about the salt consumption, wouldn't the same apply to all softeners?

How do you 'replenish' manually? Again, I think I'd rather 'fit and forget' - other than filling it with salt, of course.

Thanks,

Pete

moonrakerz

[Deleted User] wrote:

Forgive me, but I'm not trying to dis you guys :A I'm just trying to get a water softener and this is the best place for money savign tips :j

I live in a house with 5 adults who want baths every night and showers every morning in an area (Malmesbury) that Wessesx Water say is 'very hard with an average calcium carbonate reading of 303 mg/l' and I've already had to change the immersion tank - God knows what the rest of the system is like.

Whatever they say about the salt consumption, wouldn't the same apply to all softeners?

How do you 'replenish' manually? Again, I think I'd rather 'fit and forget' - other than filling it with salt, of course.

Thanks,

Pete

Pete, I am trying to help you save money - honest ! That's why others have accused me of having "a bee in my bonnet" - I hate to see people being fleeced by glib salesmen flogging over priced equipment loaded up with totally unnecessary extras.

I don't live a million miles from Malmesbury so my water is probably very similar to yours.

If the salesman you mentioned knew how many people were in your house and your likely consumption and still said that one bag of salt would last you for a year, he was either grossly incompetent or was a con artist of the first magnitude - OR BOTH !

All water softeners will use roughly the same amount of salt - that is why I was so sceptical with the figures you mentioned.
A basic softener is set to regenerate x times a week (depending on your useage - as I said a bit of trial and error), this happens during the night and you are not aware of it. To regenerate "manually" you press a knob on the softener to tell it to regenerate "now".

In my last house, 4 beds, 3 baths/loos, 4 adults, the softener held 25kg of salt and that would last just over two months. That is the sort of consumption I would expect you to have as well.

Go to B & Q in Chippenham, Swindon or Bristol, say you want to buy one of their Water Softeners but you are having trouble with finding a plumber and electrician to fit it. They will have a list of guys who do their kitchen installations and the like.
They might even give you a price to supply and fit.

George_Bray

[Deleted User] wrote:

Forgive me, but I'm not trying to dis you guys :A I'm just trying to get a water softener and this is the best place for money savign tips :j

Pete

Like moonrakerz, I'm just trying to help you save money. If you don't want to buy a used unit on eBay, the best value might come from Screwfix or B&Q for about £300. I would fit it myself so my total costs would amount to little more - perhaps £10 more for some copper pipe and joints, etc.

I concede that, if you can't fit it yourself or find a friend/relative who can, then you're vulnerable to trade fees. The crazy thing is that the plumbing only needs to involve a few minor pipe changes and joints. If you had a new sink, say, and needed roughly the same amount of work, a plumber might charge a comparatively modest £X, whatever that amount is. But mention the words 'water softener' and that probably becomes 2X or 3X. This is why I avoid trade persons at almost all costs. Their work represents very poor value. A charge of £350+VAT is absurd and almost fraudulent. Try to work it out from a fair labour rate. Let's allow a very generous £50 per hour when £30 would be fairer for that type of work. But you need 7 hours at £50 to get £350. This smacks of either fraud or total incompetence if it takes any plumber much more than 1 hour to carry out the required connections.

If you "live in a house with 5 adults who want baths every night and showers every morning in an area (Malmesbury) that Wessex Water say is 'very hard with an average calcium carbonate reading of 303 mg/l" simple laws of physics and chemistry mean you are going to use a lot of water and a lot of salt. I'd go as far as suggesting you probably need a larger softener (greater resin capacity) than a £300 model. These may have only 8-10 litres of resin. Perhaps you really need about 15 litres of resin.

Don't be fooled by a claimed 'capacity' of, say 12 litres. You need to know the actual fill of resin. They mislead you by putting a lowly, say, 8 litres of resin in a 12 litre vessel.

>Whatever they say about the salt consumption,
>wouldn't the same apply to all softeners?

Yes, if they are being honest.

>How do you 'replenish' manually?

Take the lid off the vessel with the resin. Fill it with concentrated brine (a specified amount of salt in kg relative to the number of litres of resin). Leave it to "soak in". Perhaps repeat for an even greater 'charge'. Rinse with comparatively little water.

>Again, I think I'd rather 'fit and forget'
>other than filling it with salt, of course.

I agree, with a large household. This also suggests that with a small 8 or 12 litres of resin, this machine is going to be replenishing every few hours.

Regards
George

globalds

Here I am again.The softener arrived today .
Very dirty and not packed to well ..But let me make it easier and i'll show you some pictures
I can't seem to make them any smaller so it may well be one per post !
Here is the control panel
It turns on and things moved when I pressed the recycle button .
unfortunately I have no user manual ..and the seller was correct it has no branding on it.

globalds

Right it seems the size is right here are a few more pictures This is a disaster my pictures are entirely random sizes .Any way definately takes salt ..
I am wondering what the clear plastic thing is with the little black ball inside (bottom picture )
Question one .Is their a certain type of salt i need to buy .
Question Two . can I clean out the salt with water before I refill .
Question Three .Is there a kind of generic user guide I can download .

George_Bray

Question one .Is their a certain type of salt i need to buy .

You need to use the type of salt specified for the automatic operation of this type of softener. I'd use the same type of salt as for most other softeners which have a similar design, i.e. one tank for resin and a container for salt.

Question Two . can I clean out the salt with water before I refill .

I'd clean ou the salt 'box' with soap and hot water and give it a good rinse.
Don't use any soap or hot water for the resin container. You can rinse that through with cold water though. I''d also give it a dose of proprietary water softener disinfectant. You don't know how long that softener has been hanging around. The resin bed is a breeding ground for bacteria.

Question Three .Is there a kind of generic user guide I can download .

I'd download various user guides from Screwfix.com, Culligan, and other manufacturers. Try and figure out what all the main components are and how they're supposed to work, and be set up. Most of these softeners work on similar principles.

Regards
George

moonrakerz

This may be of use to show how to plumb it in.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/how_your_house_works/1275126.html

Edit:

Just noticed something missing in the drawing, that is the emergency overflow from the brine tank (in case the power fails when the brine tank is refilling).
On your machine I would say that is the piece of green garden hose !

abb16ott

vrstu wrote: »

Seems a lot for an electric one to me.

I had my 2020c installed today - very neat job.

How much did u pay for it if you don't mind me asking, I noticed this model only tonight, uses no electricity - is that right ?

How compact is it - will it fit under the sink easy and did u fit it or have it fitted.

And lastly does it do all your water including your drinking water or do you have to have a separate drinking tap?

thanks.

abb16ott

vrstu wrote: »

I have read your posts several times and you obviously have your own opinion.

I will agree that the cost of the non electric units is high however having had a good many years service from one in the past my mind was made up for the replacment.

Had a call back from the Kinetico salesman as expected and have secured a unit fully installed with 12 packs of salt for £1000.

Which model was that for please??