water softner help in chosing and is this true

Matt_Filterman

Hi joe t.
Go for the 15 litre model if the price difference is just £24, it will be a better bet particularly if you have a modern direct water system..
I'm very impressed that these units are the more sophisticated metered type.. for this kind of money I would have just expected a basic timed version.
Just a quick note about the dish washer.. whilst they are often seen as being wasteful of water, modern day automatic dish washing units use 75% less water than washing the equivalent amount of dishes by hand in the sink.
I was slightly surprised at how little flushing water this size of softener produced.. water that will anyhow go through a sewage treatment plant, end up in a river and probably end up getting abstracted and used again further down stream.. it won't go to waste!
Matt

joe_t

thanks matt and george,

ive emailed them ref the resin, this bit is something new to me.

ive just looked at the pdf of the brochure and it states the following.

the regenerations @300ppm hardness are 1667ltrs and 2500ltrs intervals, so im guessing the 15ltr version is more economical/better from those figures.

joe...........

Matt_Filterman

Those figures look correct for a 10 and 15 litre softener based on a hardness of 300 ppm. As both units will probably use a similar amount of water for a flushing regeneration then the 15 litre will be more economical on water overall as it will need to regenerate less frequently

The bigger unit will however use 50% more salt per regeneration so it could be argued that it would not be any more efficient on salt usage despite regenerating less frequently.

However.

As most single cylinder softeners waste a bit of softening capacity every time they regenerate ( due to the fact that they anticipate when they will probably run out of softening capacity and regenerate the night before this will happen), the less frequently they need to regenerate, the more economical they will be on salt usage as they waste this small amount of softening capacity less often.. clear as mud I know!

Bottom line.. go for the bigger unit if funds allow and you have room to install it.

joe_t

thanks again matt.
i am going to order the bigger one tomorrow morning.
its took me a long while to get to this point so thanks to everyone who has contributed.
i will report back when its fitted.
joe..........

moonrakerz

Matt_Filterman wrote: »

As most single cylinder softeners waste a bit of softening capacity every time they regenerate ( due to the fact that they anticipate when they will probably run out of softening capacity and regenerate the night before this will happen), the less frequently they need to regenerate, the more economical they will be on salt usage as they waste this small amount of softening capacity less often.. clear as mud I know!

Much as I hate to query your excellent advice on water softeners Matt - but I always say that single cylinder machines don't "waste" anything - they just make the water EVEN softer !! :D

MateyB

In case anyone is interested. I installed my softener 31 years ago and it still works fine regenerating every 3 days. I think I had a service done once probably about 20 years ago but I don’t think much was done. My softener has an early Autotrol 155 valve. I chose this at the time after speaking to a water softener engineer who said just make sure the softener you buy has an Autotrol valve. Although my softener still works fine I think it is about time I replaced it because I do not want to wait until it breaks, and I’m not sure if resins should be changed periodically. So guess what valve I’ll be going for? (I may have been lucky of course.)

Matt_Filterman

Hi MateyB.
Thanks for your input.. and glad to hear your softener has been working well for such a long time. even by Autotrol standards 31 years is good going!.. You would probably find that the spare parts for the current 255 valve would still be interchangeable with your valve, they just got it right a long time ago and haven't had to change much over the years.
The condition of your resin will be dependant on the levels of chlorine, iron or manganese in your water supply. Chlorine will slowly damage the structure of the resin beads and turn it to mush over the years, usually resulting in a restriction of flow through the resin bed as the 'mush' binds together and prevents the water passing through. Iron and manganese oxides, if present in the supply, will foul the surface of the resin beads preventing the exchange of calcium and magnesium ions for sodium ions derived from the salt you place in the brine tank. This prevents the machine from producing softened water over time. I would normally expect resin beds to last 15-20 years on mains water supplies in the UK.
Matt

MateyB

Thanks Matt, that's useful to know. Luckily we are still getting soft water and soon notice it if it goes slightly hard when we go above our normal water usage, for instance if we use the washing machine several times in a couple of days. For this reason I might go for the metered Autotrol valve this time. There was a similar device available for my Autotrol when I bought it 31 years ago but was told they were nothing but trouble and that I should stick with the basic time clock, which I did, and it has been great. However, I would think that by now with modern electronics the metered type of control would be reliable. Having said that I gather the main problem cars have these days, even expensive luxury ones, is with their electronics. hmm, perhaps I should think again J

Looking at various softener suppliers it appears I can pick up a 14/15ltr Autotrol metered softener for around £400 delivered, which is fine. However, one company who have been trading many years in both domestic and commercial water products also offer a premium version of the above (same metered valve but a different coloured cabinet) but with superior resin. This version sells for over £1000. Can resins vary that much and be worth another £600! And how do you check. Are there specific brands and grades of resin you can request and how would you know if a company was using a cheap resin? Cheers.

Matt_Filterman

Hi again MateyB.
You'll be OK with a volumetrically controlled Autotrol 255 valve.. they're very reliable. The price looks very good for a 14/15 litre unit too. Don't bother with anything fancy regarding the resin, there's very little difference between the brands and types, particularly for a domestic application.
Matt

joe_t

dont know if you guys can answer this one, but here goes.
we have a tefal steam generator iron that states use hard water only.
we now have no hard water at all, tefal states.

What water should I use in my Tefal iron?
Tefal irons are specifically made to use tap water. The anti-scale features will clean the water properly. Please do not use pure demineralised water, water from clothes dryers, scented or softened water, water from refrigerators, batteries or air conditioners, pure distilled water or rain water as these may damage the iron. These types of water contain organic waste, mineral elements that become concentrated when heated and cause spitting, brown staining or premature wear on your iron. Furthermore softened water has had the hardness taken out of it, e.g. minerals such as calcium and magnesium, thereby reducing the rate of scale forming. However, TEFAL irons rely on a degree of scaling from ordinary tap water to coat the internal steam chamber, this improves steam generation and helps prolong the life of the soleplate.
In very hard water areas a mixture of 50% tap water and 50% distilled water can be used.


can we use bottled from the super market?.


thanks.
joe......