water softner help in chosing and is this true

joe_t

hi,
i have spoken to tapworks and they tell NOW that there valve is there valve no brand name and its patented to them.
with regard to the ecowater ESM11 and the AD11 being the same quiet simply there not, there is a lot more going on in the eco,
basically the tapworks is the bog standard version.
that said, she did say the valve is the same (im not sure i believe her to be honest).
there ecowater esm11 costs £1200 plus vat.
im waiting for a email from the company i linked too regarding a recommendation from them, ive told them im fairly set on the TAPWORKS AD11.
they are using the autotrol255 logix valve in some machines which ive asked them to base there recommendations on that valve.
i will post back when i get a reply and link to those machines.
joe...................

Doc_N

Thanks for feeding back, Joe.

Ecowater is, of course, the company behind all the softeners - the ones branded Ecowater and the ones branded Tapworks. It's not really in their interests to tell you that they're basically the same - otherwise nobody would buy the expensive Ecowater models.

I'm sure there are some differences between the equivalent models. What I'm not sure of, though, is just how significant those difference are, and whether they merit the huge price difference.

joe_t

Doc_N wrote: »

Thanks for feeding back, Joe.

Ecowater is, of course, the company behind all the softeners - the ones branded Ecowater and the ones branded Tapworks. It's not really in their interests to tell you that they're basically the same - otherwise nobody would buy the expensive Ecowater models.

I'm sure there are some differences between the equivalent models. What I'm not sure of, though, is just how significant those difference are, and whether they merit the huge price difference.

i never looked at it that way, which is unusual for me not to be so cynical, you are likely to be right though.

do you any thoughts on this one via the company from the earlier link, this one has the autotrol 255 valve £390 with vat £204 to fit with the 22mm kit for pressurised mains systems.
the manual
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=12e24b22ff71cf23&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D68fdf49495%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12e24b22ff71cf23%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQMJJrZHXzy8AFIT5162wS3p0Za8g

catalogue
http://www.kennetwater.co.uk/Coral%20Oct%2008.pdf


joe

Doc_N

joe_t wrote: »

i never looked at it that way, which is unusual for me not to be so cynical, you are likely to be right though.

do you any thoughts on this one via the company from the earlier link, this one has the autotrol 255 valve £390 with vat £204 to fit with the 22mm kit for pressurised mains systems.
the manual
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.1&thid=12e24b22ff71cf23&mt=application/pdf&url=https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui%3D2%26ik%3D68fdf49495%26view%3Datt%26th%3D12e24b22ff71cf23%26attid%3D0.1%26disp%3Dattd%26zw&sig=AHIEtbQMJJrZHXzy8AFIT5162wS3p0Za8g

catalogue
http://www.kennetwater.co.uk/Coral%20Oct%2008.pdf


joe

I'd love to be able to help you on that, but I'm afraid my knowledge is very much restricted to the ones I have any knowledge of, and that's really only Ecowater and Tapworks, I'm afraid.

joe_t

no problem doc, one of the other guys might see it and have an opinion.
i sort of feel a bit happier with it as it has one of the valves matt filterman had been fairly adamant about, with that there local and there fitting it and it has 5 years parts warranty.

jeez im a terrible buyer, too much bloody information on this interweb.


joe.............

Matt_Filterman

Hi joe t.
This is just the type of deal I've been recommending on this site for a while. Good quality equipment and a reasonable installation price.. I wouldn't hesitate!

joe_t

Matt_Filterman wrote: »

Hi joe t.
This is just the type of deal I've been recommending on this site for a while. Good quality equipment and a reasonable installation price.. I wouldn't hesitate!

thanks matt,
i will be ordering monday, i was just giving it another week hoping you would pop in and see it.


the girl at the company who i have only had email contact with supplied me with the following info on what she would recommend too friends and family, this was when i had almost made my mind up with the CORAL.


No Problem, I take on board what you are saying and agree with you on wanting a machine that will last.

What I would say is that the Coral with the Autotrol valve is one of our best selling and most reliable units they truly are a work horse. we have customers that have had these in their homes for many years that we do service, some every year some every 2 or 3 but they just run and run.

If you were wanting to go down the route of a twin tank non electric system I would always recommend the Kinetico out of all of them.
In our experience of selling and installing all the non electric models the Kinetico 2020c is the most reliable. We have had some problems in the past with the others. Although obviously Your Father is more than happy with his. We sell the Kinetico at £899.00 inc vat, the install charge would be the same as already quoted.

as for what I would recommend to family well I will say that I have a couple of friends that have the corals and a family member with the Kinetico.

The Kinetico will be more efficient than the Coral with water and salt so the running costs will be less and obviously the Kinetico uses the block salt which is far easier to store and put into the machine which is why I recommended this for a family member, they also did not have an electrical point to plug into which again made the kinetico a better solution.

It really comes down to budget and your personal needs, but which ever one you choose will give you perfect soft water and you wont even think about what it is once installed.

I hope this goes someway to help you make a decision, but please feel free to contact me if you have any further queries.

I REPLIED WITH THIS


hi,
thank you april for your valued opinion, im really grateful.
you say the Kinetico is more efficient with water and salt, the thing that bothers me with them is the block salt cost, which seem to more than kill off any savings it makes by being more efficient, am i wrong in thinking this?

i will have a look at the Kinetico over the weekend and confirm which one monday or tuesday.

regards



Hi,


The Kinetico will use approx 0.22 kg of salt per regen, I will do the figures based on 5000 litres of water used for each this means that for 5000 litres softened the salt cost would be approx £2.93
The coral will use approx 1.8kg per regen this means that for 5000 litres softened the slat cost would be £3.15 so there is not really a lot in it for salt usage but the amount of water used is considerably more for the Coral for 5000 litres with the coral it would use 500 litres which is waste water flushed away, the Kinetico uses approx 225 litres



this really threw me at first, so it was back to re-reading the posts here, and i quickly decided it cant be true.
is this the standard sales patter for these twin tub machines.

joe..............

Matt_Filterman

Hi again joe t.
At £390 for the Coral I would expect it to be either a 10 litre unit or if they're being particularly generous a 14 litre unit (the literage referres to how much softening resin there is inside the softener). If it is the 10 litre unit then it should use 87 litres of water per regeneration (the 14 litre unit should use 89 litres). At a standard hardness of 300 parts per million I would expect the unit to produce 273.31 litres of waste water per every 5,000 litres of softened water produced.
Mains water costs about £1.25 for 1,000 litres.
As the Coral uses 50 litres of water more than the other softener over a water usage of 5,000 litres (aprox 1 weeks usage for you probably) then this will cost in the region of £0.06 per week or £3.12 per year.
Matt.

joe_t

thanks matt,
i am almost understanding this stuff now.

there is a 10ltr and a 15ltr version.
the costs are £24 difference which should i go for do you think.
we are 3 adults 1 child of 10.
1 bath 1 ensuite.
no dishwasher, well i dont call her a dishwasher

below are links to the two of them:

http://www.299softeners.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=232
http://www.299softeners.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=231

joe..........

George_Bray

joe_t wrote: »

thanks matt,
i am almost understanding this stuff now.
there is a 10ltr and a 15ltr version.
the costs are £24 difference which should i go for do you think.
we are 3 adults 1 child of 10.
1 bath 1 ensuite.
no dishwasher, well i dont call her a dishwasher

For the stated capacity to be meaningful it should represent the quantity of resin - the active ingredient. If there's only a £24 difference, I'd certainly go for the "15 litre" version but do check how much resin those two models actually include. They could, on the other hand, be stating the tank capacity - a totally irrelevant and misleading bit of data.

There may be a mistake in their specifications because they say both models will process approx 1370 litres betweeen regenerations. It doesn't make sense. If the resin goes up by 50% from 10 litres to 15 litres, then the volume of water which can be softened should go up by 50% as well, in between regenerations.

I'm lost for words as to the reckless waste of water which these softeners use during regeneration. It's environmentally irresponsible. My softeners are about the same capacity but, being manual models, I control exactly how much water is used. I use something like 45 litres for the entire regeneration and rinsing process, rather than the hundreds of litres which the automatic machines use.