Home Insurance Discussion

maxdp

I have and insurance home and contents with Lloyds. I recently had my allotment shed broken into and had a strimmer and rotovator pinched. When I tried to claim I was told that it was not insured. Surely that would be under personal possessions? There seemed to be some query over where the equipment was stored. I store them in my garage but had taken the equipment up to my allotment 2 days before and left for 2 nights. Surely I am covered as it was not stored up there for more than 3 months? Any help would be much appreciated

dacouch

maxdp wrote: »

I have and insurance home and contents with Lloyds. I recently had my allotment shed broken into and had a strimmer and rotovator pinched. When I tried to claim I was told that it was not insured. Surely that would be under personal possessions? There seemed to be some query over where the equipment was stored. I store them in my garage but had taken the equipment up to my allotment 2 days before and left for 2 nights. Surely I am covered as it was not stored up there for more than 3 months? Any help would be much appreciated

Personal Possessions are normally classed as items you would normally carry about your person eg sunglasses, luggage, jewellery, camera equipment etc etc.

maxdp

dacouch wrote: »

Personal Possessions are normally classed as items you would normally carry about your person eg sunglasses, luggage, jewellery, camera equipment etc etc.[/QUOTxceeding 3 calendar months

Thanks for that. It says that your contents are covered anywhere in the british Isles for a period not exceeding 3 calendar months.
Not covered:
Loss or damage caused by theft or attempted theft other than from:
any other building or a caravan but only if force and violence are used to gain entry or exit.

Surely that covers it as force was used to obtain entry to my locked shed.

That is what is confusing me.:o

dacouch

Which Insurer actually covers you and I'll look up the relevant wording

maxdp

dacouch wrote: »

Which Insurer actually covers you and I'll look up the relevant wording

Thank you so much. It is Lloyds tsb

dacouch

maxdp wrote: »

Thank you so much. It is Lloyds tsb

The following is assuming it's actually Lloyds TSB and the policy start day was after April 2011. As they also badge policies as Lloyds TSB when they're from one of the following Insurers.

Allianz, Aviva, Axa, Aegis, Groupama, L&G, MMA,RSA, Sterling or Zurich

Here is their definition of "Personal Possessions"

"Personal Belongings – Articles normally
worn, used or carried about the person,
in everyday life, including sports
equipment, musical instruments and
mobile telephones." (Page 8-9 Words and Phrases with Special Meaning)"

It has the following relevant exclusion

"Tools, machinery or mechanical
implements." Page 24-25

http://www.lloydstsb.com/media/lloydstsb2004/pdfs/insurance/LTSB_HOME_OPTIONS_CONTENTS_POLICY_DOC.pdf

As you seem to be quoting different text, I assume you're Lloyds TSB is with one of the other Insurers I've listed. If you let me know which one and / or give me the link you're using I'll look at that policy

maxdp

dacouch wrote: »

The following is assuming it's actually Lloyds TSB and the policy start day was after April 2011. As they also badge policies as Lloyds TSB when they're from one of the following Insurers.

Allianz, Aviva, Axa, Aegis, Groupama, L&G, MMA,RSA, Sterling or Zurich

Here is their definition of "Personal Possessions"

"Personal Belongings – Articles normally
worn, used or carried about the person,
in everyday life, including sports
equipment, musical instruments and
mobile telephones." (Page 8-9 Words and Phrases with Special Meaning)"

It has the following relevant exclusion

"Tools, machinery or mechanical
implements." Page 24-25

http://www.lloydstsb.com/media/lloydstsb2004/pdfs/insurance/LTSB_HOME_OPTIONS_CONTENTS_POLICY_DOC.pdf

As you seem to be quoting different text, I assume you're Lloyds TSB is with one of the other Insurers I've listed. If you let me know which one and / or give me the link you're using I'll look at that policy

Thank you for that the one I am looking at is definitely from Lloyds TSB and is under Section 2 Contents Cover rather than personal possessions which is why I may have been getting confused it is page 21 and the booklet is
Your honme solutions policy booklet. It is dated 17th April.

maxdp

maxdp wrote: »

Thank you for that the one I am looking at is definitely from Lloyds TSB and is under Section 2 Contents Cover rather than personal possessions which is why I may have been getting confused it is page 21 and the booklet is
Your honme solutions policy booklet. It is dated 17th April.

http://www.insurance.lloydstsb.com/media/home/documents/LloydsTSB_Contents_Policy_AXA.pdf

Page 19. Except the 15% clause is not in my booklet!

dacouch

Here's there definition of "Personal Belongings"

"Personal Belongings – Articles normally
worn, used or carried about the person,
in everyday life, including sports
equipment, musical instruments and
mobile telephones" (Under "words and phrases with special meanings" near the start of the policy

This part is the relevant part saying when personal belongings are covered when in the UK

"Theft or accidental loss of, or
accidental damage to you or your
family’s personal belongings and
money" (Page 25)

This exclusion will (I think) exclude a claim for a strimmer or rotavator as well as the definition referred to before eg "Articles normally worn, used or carried about the person, in everyday life" as you would not wear,use or carry them about in every day life.

You seem to also be referring to what we would normally call "Contents Temporarily Removed" eg page 19.

This is the wording to cover it
"• Anywhere in the British Isles when
temporarily removed from your home
for a period not exceeding
3 calendar months."

This section has this exclusion.

"Loss or damage caused by theft or
attempted theft, other than from:
i) An occupied, private home or any
building where you or your family
are working or temporarily living.
ii) Any other building or caravan but
only if force and violence are used to
gain entry or exit"

Which basically means they exclude theft unless it's from an occupied house or a home your family are temporary living in. Which obviously the shed is not. However part ii) might well cover you as it's not very well worded.

"Any other building or caravan but
only if force and violence are used to
gain entry or exit."

This covers any building not falling in the definition of part i) which the shed is not. The Oxford definition of building is basically structure with walls and roof. They don't really define wall very well which works in your favour.

The Temp Removed cover is not really designed for theft from allotment sheds, however as their bad wording eg "Building" and not defining building as being a brick or stone structure or excluding sheds. I think you might be able to force them to pay the claim assuming violence or force was used to enter the shed.

You need to forget about personal belongings as it's not covered by that. Concentrate on the cover provided on page 19. Refer to the Oxford definition of a "Building".

You need to send them a letter headed "Official Complaint" details are on page 47. Keep the letter concise and polite. Draw their attention to the this

"Anywhere in the British Isles when
temporarily removed from your home
for a period not exceeding
3 calendar months" as being what cover they provide.

and this "Loss or damage caused by theft or
attempted theft, other than from:" and this "ii) Any other building or caravan but
only if force and violence are used to
gain entry or exit." as being sections that specifically confirm that theft form your shed eg a building are covered as the shed is not an "An occupied, private home or any building where you or your family are working or temporarily living."

Advise them you expect the claim to be settled forth with as the cover specifically states it's covered and that should you not receive satisfaction you will refer the matter to the Ombudsman.

Keep your complaint to basically saying the policy wording which after all is a contract between you. Is saying that this incident is clearly covered. If they query the definition of "Building" as they don't define it in their policy then it's fair to use the Oxford Dictionary definition so refer them to this.

They are allowed 8 weeks to investigate your complaint and get back to you.

Incidently you could probably claim it under the general contents section as that is also badly worded in your favour.

eg This is what they say they cover

"The contents are insured against loss or
damage by the following causes:" Page 10

This section specifically covers sheds "6. Theft or attempted theft." page 11 with this exclusion "More than £2,000 for any one claim for
contents stolen from a garage,
outbuilding, shed or greenhouse"

So they say theft from a shed is covered, but (In my opinion) as they have not inserted "Of the Home" into this wording "The contents Home) are insured against loss or damage by the following causes" you could possibly force a claim through this section. They do define "Home" as basically your house and outbuildings within it's boundary which would exclude the shed but as they don't refer to it they have left it very open.

I would use the first argument for your complaint though.

I think your lucky as most policies would exclude theft of garden tools from an allotment shed due to the wording of their policy and it's not normally their intention to cover this type of situation.

Sorry if the post is long winded, tried to put it in laymans terms, so hopefully it makes sense.

Good luck, it may take a while to get the claim sorted, hopefully if someone with any intelligence reads your complaint and how poorly worded the policy is they will pay the claim rather than let it go to the Ombudsman.

P.S I would be surprised if Axa don't change the wording of their policy in the future to tighten it up in these sections as they're open to claims they don't intend to pay

If you don't have a paper copy of your current Axa Policy then download the ones from the Lloyd's website just to be on the safe side

maxdp

dacouch wrote: »

Here's there definition of "Personal Belongings"

"Personal Belongings – Articles normally
worn, used or carried about the person,
in everyday life, including sports
equipment, musical instruments and
mobile telephones" (Under "words and phrases with special meanings" near the start of the policy

This part is the relevant part saying when personal belongings are covered when in the UK

"Theft or accidental loss of, or
accidental damage to you or your
family’s personal belongings and
money" (Page 25)

This exclusion will (I think) exclude a claim for a strimmer or rotavator as well as the definition referred to before eg "Articles normally worn, used or carried about the person, in everyday life" as you would not wear,use or carry them about in every day life.

You seem to also be referring to what we would normally call "Contents Temporarily Removed" eg page 19.

This is the wording to cover it
"• Anywhere in the British Isles when
temporarily removed from your home
for a period not exceeding
3 calendar months."

This section has this exclusion.

"Loss or damage caused by theft or
attempted theft, other than from:
i) An occupied, private home or any
building where you or your family
are working or temporarily living.
ii) Any other building or caravan but
only if force and violence are used to
gain entry or exit"

Which basically means they exclude theft unless it's from an occupied house or a home your family are temporary living in. Which obviously the shed is not. However part ii) might well cover you as it's not very well worded.

"Any other building or caravan but
only if force and violence are used to
gain entry or exit."

This covers any building not falling in the definition of part i) which the shed is not. The Oxford definition of building is basically structure with walls and roof. They don't really define wall very well which works in your favour.

The Temp Removed cover is not really designed for theft from allotment sheds, however as their bad wording eg "Building" and not defining building as being a brick or stone structure or excluding sheds. I think you might be able to force them to pay the claim assuming violence or force was used to enter the shed.

You need to forget about personal belongings as it's not covered by that. Concentrate on the cover provided on page 19. Refer to the Oxford definition of a "Building".

You need to send them a letter headed "Official Complaint" details are on page 47. Keep the letter concise and polite. Draw their attention to the this

"Anywhere in the British Isles when
temporarily removed from your home
for a period not exceeding
3 calendar months" as being what cover they provide.

and this "Loss or damage caused by theft or
attempted theft, other than from:" and this "ii) Any other building or caravan but
only if force and violence are used to
gain entry or exit." as being sections that specifically confirm that theft form your shed eg a building are covered as the shed is not an "An occupied, private home or any building where you or your family are working or temporarily living."

Advise them you expect the claim to be settled forth with as the cover specifically states it's covered and that should you not receive satisfaction you will refer the matter to the Ombudsman.

Keep your complaint to basically saying the policy wording which after all is a contract between you. Is saying that this incident is clearly covered. If they query the definition of "Building" as they don't define it in their policy then it's fair to use the Oxford Dictionary definition so refer them to this.

They are allowed 8 weeks to investigate your complaint and get back to you.

Incidently you could probably claim it under the general contents section as that is also badly worded in your favour.

eg This is what they say they cover

"The contents are insured against loss or
damage by the following causes:" Page 10

This section specifically covers sheds "6. Theft or attempted theft." page 11 with this exclusion "More than £2,000 for any one claim for
contents stolen from a garage,
outbuilding, shed or greenhouse"

So they say theft from a shed is covered, but (In my opinion) as they have not inserted "Of the Home" into this wording "The contents Home) are insured against loss or damage by the following causes" you could possibly force a claim through this section. They do define "Home" as basically your house and outbuildings within it's boundary which would exclude the shed but as they don't refer to it they have left it very open.

I would use the first argument for your complaint though.

I think your lucky as most policies would exclude theft of garden tools from an allotment shed due to the wording of their policy and it's not normally their intention to cover this type of situation.

Sorry if the post is long winded, tried to put it in laymans terms, so hopefully it makes sense.

Good luck, it may take a while to get the claim sorted, hopefully if someone with any intelligence reads your complaint and how poorly worded the policy is they will pay the claim rather than let it go to the Ombudsman.

P.S I would be surprised if Axa don't change the wording of their policy in the future to tighten it up in these sections as they're open to claims they don't intend to pay

If you don't have a paper copy of your current Axa Policy then download the ones from the Lloyd's website just to be on the safe side

Thank you so much for your time and help. This was the bit that I was querying as it did not make sense to me. I will write to them with your suggestions. Will let you know how i get on. Again thank you for your time.:D