URGENT HELP NEEDED: Credit Card pin & chip fraud

meer53

James wrote: »

Why then is the Cardholder being accused?

Surely at the very least the card Issuer should confirm this fraud has been reported to the Police. If not, why not?

Why is it the cardhodler who has all the worrying to do until they are guaranteed their cashback in their account and their good name cleared.

Besides I thought it was the job of the police to prevent, and detect crime as well as protecting the public.

The OP isn't being accused.
If the card issuer feels that the card and PIN have been used to withdraw the cash or make purchases (their systems will tell them this) then they will probably assume that someone has had access to the card and PIN. If this is the case, the OP will need to be willing to prosecute that person, and then the Police will investigate. As the OP states they haven't lost the card, this is the most likely scenario. If the card issuer is holding the cardholder liable for any of the fraud amounts, then the Police will not be involved. The OP can report this to the Police but all they will do is issue a crime reference number, if the card issuer feels that there is a case to be investigated then THEY will contact the Police using the crime reference number to request that they take it further.
In this case, the OP was to speak to their bank again, unless they post again, we'll never know what happened. I don't think the OP will post again as this was credit card fraud and they will be refunded.

daska

adindas wrote: »

Could you please elaborate more on this ?
Do you mean Chip&PIN plus Signature stripe. Is it not that almost all CC issued in the UK use this feature.

I just want to know more to prevent fraud on my CC if you do not mind

I have a chip and signature credit card primarily to allow me to buy fuel. Very few places have machines that come out to the car which is pretty annoying when my legs aren't working very well, it's also useful when my memory is getting erratic... Of course, I then run into problems when my grip is playing up, but in that case I can't drive to the petrol station anyway so not being able to hold a pen isn't too big a deal... I also have a pre-paid card for when I can't get out of bed and need the carer to get cash/food. All varieties are useful in their own ways

Gromitt

daska wrote: »

I have a chip and signature credit card primarily to allow me to buy fuel. Very few places have machines that come out to the car which is pretty annoying when my legs aren't working very well

Pay@Pump ?

Parking_Trouble

Can the OP account for where the card was each time it was used?

My wifes friend had their card taken several times by her son who had seen the PIN being used.

My wife even guessed the number - her friend had changed it to her favourite number.

Only used in local shops and ATM's? It would be using the Chip which AFAIK cannot be skimmed. Skimming normally involves copying the mag stripe and the card gets used abroad, where Chip is not used.

Card issuer should be able to prove Chip and PIN was used and ensure it is the same card or not.

hillcats

belfastgal007 wrote: »

Hello,
I got a call today morning from my credit card company verifying some charges and I realized that my card had been used to make some fraudulent charges last night.

How do you KNOW the initial call was genuine and not a scam?
Never give out information to any incoming caller no matter who they say they are....
CALL the company yourself via a number you have resourced from a genuine document !

belfastgal007

Update:
I went to the police station and got a crime reference number yesterday. Then I called up the CC Company and gave them that number. Yesterday the CC company told me it takes them about 5 working days to complete an investigation and due to the holidays it could take more time.
Today I got a call from them and they told me;
1) A pin had been requested and sent to my address around end of Nov. I NEVER RECEIVED THIS.

2) I had spoken to the CC company on Dec 17th to waive off a late payment fee and at the end of that call they sent me a new credit card. I spoke to them for less than 2 mins that day and never requested a new card. I told the fraud department this and all they could say is that they will listen to the audio conversation and try to figure out what happened. I NEVER RECEIVED THIS CARD.

This new card was used for all the fraudulent charges. The CC company has referred this case to the police. They are currently waiting for the CCTV footage.

3) The CC company told me that the police asked them “ WHO WILL PROSECUTE?” and the CC company said they will not!!!!. How can they not? My understand is that they should , Am I wrong here?

4) Also when they sent out the new card should the old card( the one I have) not get deactivated?
I asked them this and they say “we were told your card was either lost or expired hence we issued a new card. We didn’t deactivate the old card until the new card was activated with pin”.
Is this right? Should they not deactivate the old card the moment they sent out the new card?

my mailbox is inside inside the building which can be accessed only with an access key. so it is not completly insecure but now that i think about it, i have lost couple of postal packages in the past. i thought they were lost by postal office, now i wonder if it the same person selectively targeting my mail.

This is such a mess and I am moving overseas tomorrow. It is going to be so hard for me to follow up with them.

MPH80

How can they not? My understand is that they should , Am I wrong here?

It's quite simple - they are a business. They will have to pay you back the £1300 - so they are down that money. If they prosecute - they'll have to gather the evidence and cooperate with the police - that takes time. Let's say that it takes 2 man days of time just to cooperate with the police on your case (not unreasonable) and let's say their fully loaded man costs (allowing for taxes, buildings, systems etc) are around £300 a day (which might be very low if they are using an hourly based lawyer) - they are now down £1900 - not £1300. That's before we allow for the time they've spent investigating your claim.

Their chances of a) finding the culprit and b) actually getting any money back once they've done it are very low.

If they then end up in court - they may need to produce additional documentation and time. It just simply does not add up for a crime like this.

IF they could find that it was tens or hundreds of thousands - AND there was a chance of finding out who - then it's possible they'd follow up it with the hope of recouping some of the money - otherwise it simply doesn't make monetary sense for them. They lose more money trying to prosecute than just to deal with it and refund. As a business they are primarily interested in their bottom line and everything they do costs them money.

Of course - there is the exception to this which would be to stop a prolific fraudster or gang. They might go after them to stop further losses, but I suspect they'll view this one as opportunist and probably someone you know.

Is this right? Should they not deactivate the old card the moment they sent out the new card?

I'm a little surprised by this IF the card was reported lost. However, it's equally possible that wasn't the conversation that took place and the person said "oh - the chip isn't working too well - I had problems in tesco last week" - in which case it'd make sense for the old card to remain enabled.

My 2ps worth - IF someone called them, passed security (twice!), ordered and intercepted a new pin AND ordered and intercepted a new card - they know you or have good access to you.

Hope that helps.

M.

jalexa

VictimOfImpersonation wrote: »

Yeah yeah there could be a number of reasons, but one THE most likely is that a new card and reminder PIN or fresh PIN was requested, was intercepted, and was used at the ATM and XYZ Electrical immediately very soon after the new card and PIN were intercepted/activated and used to max out the account.

Unless the old card was reported lost instead of perhaps "damaged" then the old card would not be deactivated until the new one was used, would it?

I bet the OP lives somewhere where the mailbox can be dipped i.e. somewhere mail does not simply drop on their own carpet but instead is vulnerable to dipping e.g. in perhaps one of a bank of mailboxes outside a block of flats which incidentally are also likely to have been targeted.

A very prescient post.

I don't want to enter the particular debate - as it is only as accurate and complete as reported - but the replacement PIN issue. ISTM that without going down the Cambridge University "broken PIN" route, the PIN may only be as secure as potentially guessable familial information and the security of the mailbox.

In this thread's example the form of the PIN reminder request and the "security" employed, including inbound Caller ID if any, will be a matter of recorded fact. If the initial adviser comment the OP reports - "The lady on the phone kept saying she didn’t understand how someone could have my pin" is also accurate and recorded as a matter of fact (even if "uninformed" comment) that would be a disgraceful example of how (some) in the industry jump to a conclusion.

katejo

James wrote: »

Frist of all. Your card issuer has to PROVE you used your PIN.

For your own peace of mind. Report this to the Police (insist they give you a crime report number). Explain everything to them. The reason for doing this is that basically your card issuer is accusing you of first party fraud.

I'd seek advice soonest from Action Fraud (click here). There number is 0800 123 2030.


Then let your card issuer know you've done this. Put this question to them - Are you accusing me of 1st Party Fraud or being negligent with my Card and PIN? Have you (card issuer) reported this to the Police?

Make sure you keep an accurate Diary of everyone you've talked or written to.

I hope this helps and you get it sorted.

For anyone else reading this. To prevent this happening to you, get yourself a Chip & Signature Card.

I have read in other accounts on this forum that the police tend to say that they can't help with card fraud. They say it is between the card holder and the bank.

I didn't think that chip and signature cards were being mede available any longer.

Good luck with getting things sorted out. I would definitely want to know where the transactions had taken place.

VictimOfImpersonation

Well well well.

So this is looking more and more like another postal interception.

The suggestion that the fraudster "knows" the Victim Of Impersonation is just a poor guess unless the OP's postal mail is secure from mailbox dipping but not secure from someone in the house. Mailbox interception fraudsters are just totally brazen. They think nothing about calling your card company impersonationg you multiple times. In my case they even demanded to talk to an RBS call centre manager because after they'd been told that a new Tesco card & RBS Classic would be issued they were told about a dormant Directline account I had at the time and RBS had refused to reissue a card for that one!

Unless the OP knows something in particular about their own vulnerability which we have not been told, I'd say they should completely forget about ideas that a friend/co-worker/family member has had something to do with it and concentrate their energy into taking no further BS from the card company.

If the mail can be stolen then almost everything the fraudster needs to pass security will arrive in the mail over a period, even DoB, although there are some places that DoBs can be too easily obtained e.g. companies house website.

The only thing which may not arrive in the post is a unique password or mother's maiden name and the latter may have been obtained from Ancestry.co.uk or Genes Reunited if someone in the family has not been too clever.

Another possibility is what happened to me in early 2010 - the first impersonation was on the Call Credit website (yes the UK's "third" CRA). They had a security glitch which enable someone to register as me and instantly download my entire credit report.

Either way the OP should complete the paperwork the card issuer will send for the disputed transactions, faxing it back for speed, and insist on the account be credited immediately. It's been too long already. The OP should not be backward in coming forward when speaking with the card issuer. The card issuer has done no-one any favours here. They've been slow over the holiday period (no excuse - credit cards are a 365/52 business) and it sounds like their staff are inadequately trained.