URGENT HELP NEEDED: Credit Card pin & chip fraud

adindas

Could you please elaborate more on this ?
Do you mean Chip&PIN plus Signature stripe. Is it not that almost all CC issued in the UK use this feature.

I just want to know more to prevent fraud on my CC if you do not mind

James wrote: »

For anyone else reading this. To prevent this happening to you, get yourself a Chip & Signature Card.

Gromitt

'Chip & Signature Card' means no PIN required. All purchases must be signed for. They are meant for disabled people who can't use C&P terminals.

VictimOfImpersonation

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

In my opinion it must be an inside job then - a family member or close friend.
Was it kept within eyesight at all times in a wallet or bag? Some people can be very devious.

It does not change the fact that you are the victim in this unless you wrote the Pin number down somewhere or told it to someone.

jonesMUFCforever, are you one of the banks' stooges vax2002 was warning about?

You are all over the place with your suggestion that it is the bank that is responsible for contacting the police in one post and then implying the OP is the victim in a later post. But how dare you so carelessly jump to the conclusion that this is an "inside job" and worry the OP unnecessarily at Christmas too when they are with family and friends?

meer53, you work for a bank but your experience is wrong. There is no significance to the fraudulent use of the card being close to home other than home is where new cards and new PINs are delivered (and can be intercepted). Interception of cards is rife. We have barstewards dipping letter boxes constantly in our area even though I have had one a arrested with mail in his pockets and another was caught by a neighbour.

Read my old posts to see how interception plays out. It is more likely that someone has dipped the OPs box found a letter or statement from the card company and called Lost and Stolen triggering new card and PIN, then checking back in a few days to collect card and PIN, than had their card cloned. Yes some card companies routinely issue new PINs when cards are reported Lost & Stolen.

It is disgraceful that banks are permitted to play their own policeman on this. It is about time the "secret" agreement between the police and banks was thrown out and some proper policing was done instead of police sitting back congratulating themselves that burglary is down. Of course burglary is down - it is becoming as outdated as horse-stealing. Credit card fraud is far more serious yet almost all of it is totally unrecorded by police.

jonesMUFCforever

Nice post but I will not waste my time pointing the errors in it - now Xmas has gone have a good new year.

meer53

VictimOfImpersonation wrote: »

jonesMUFCforever, are you one of the banks' stooges vax2002 was warning about?

You are all over the place with your suggestion that it is the bank that is responsible for contacting the police in one post and then implying the OP is the victim in a later post. But how dare you so carelessly jump to the conclusion that this is an "inside job" and worry the OP unnecessarily at Christmas too when they are with family and friends?

meer53, you work for a bank but your experience is wrong. There is no significance to the fraudulent use of the card being close to home other than home is where new cards and new PINs are delivered (and can be intercepted). Interception of cards is rife. We have barstewards dipping letter boxes constantly in our area even though I have had one a arrested with mail in his pockets and another was caught by a neighbour.

Read my old posts to see how interception plays out. It is more likely that someone has dipped the OPs box found a letter or statement from the card company and called Lost and Stolen triggering new card and PIN, then checking back in a few days to collect card and PIN, than had their card cloned. Yes some card companies routinely issue new PINs when cards are reported Lost & Stolen.

It is disgraceful that banks are permitted to play their own policeman on this. It is about time the "secret" agreement between the police and banks was thrown out and some proper policing was done instead of police sitting back congratulating themselves that burglary is down. Of course burglary is down - it is becoming as outdated as horse-stealing. Credit card fraud is far more serious yet almost all of it is totally unrecorded by police.

The OP has confirmed that a new card was not expected. I apologise if my experience doesn't meet with your expectations. How long have you worked in Fraud then ?

For someone to impersonate the customer and then ask for an address to be changed to intercept a card so they can use the card and PIN is far rarer than someone the cardholder knows using the card and PIN and putting it back without their knowledge. I do work for a bank, in the fraud department, and have done for 18 years. I think i might have seen a few more examples of fraud than most people.

Hopefully the OP will get this sorted soon, although as i mentioned earlier, the bank will be standing the loss.

VictimOfImpersonation

The OP has confirmed that a new card was not expected.

So? Do you think that organised mailbox thieves would tell the OP to expect a card they had requested but the OP hadn't???

And would the fraud department necessarily tell the OP if they knew a new card had been requested by an impersonator? And what happens after a fraud like this is reported? Yes - yet another new card so no need to tell the OP if it happens to be the second new card in as many weeks unless the OP asks outright, eh? Afterall, the OP's not the victim - it's the bank, isn't it?

If you work in fraud department at First Direct then you might see less of what I am talking about than most because when I was attacked I quickly formed the impression that First Direct's security was a bit harder to target than the rest. So not your fault that you mightn't be aware that mailbox interception is now rife and a significant cause of exactly this kind of loss amongst your competitors.

I think I have probably discovered more about this type of fraud than you would like most of your impersonated customers to discover, meer53.

18 years in fraud department? You might need to get out occasionally and see it through the other end of the telescope. Talk to the Post Office and arrange to accompany one of their undercover surveillance team - as an important customer they'll surely share with you the gen on the problem postcodes as they see it which may differ in some respects from the way you see it. If you sit quietly in some postcodes after the posties have been, you might even catch yourself a dipper They seem to be more common than house sparrows where I live

jalexa

VictimOfImpersonation wrote: »

when I was attacked I quickly formed the impression that First Direct's security was a bit harder to target than the rest.

Maybe now maybe not. A few years ago I applied online for a First Direct bank account, securely entering all the personal data requested.

A few days later a glossy black very evidently First Direct communication arrived in the post containing amongst other things a full copy of all my securely entered personal data. Duh.

meer53

VictimOfImpersonation wrote: »

So? Do you think that organised mailbox thieves would tell the OP to expect a card they had requested but the OP hadn't???

And would the fraud department necessarily tell the OP if they knew a new card had been requested by an impersonator? And what happens after a fraud like this is reported? Yes - yet another new card so no need to tell the OP if it happens to be the second new card in as many weeks unless the OP asks outright, eh? Afterall, the OP's not the victim - it's the bank, isn't it?

If you work in fraud department at First Direct then you might see less of what I am talking about than most because when I was attacked I quickly formed the impression that First Direct's security was a bit harder to target than the rest. So not your fault that you mightn't be aware that mailbox interception is now rife and a significant cause of exactly this kind of loss amongst your competitors.

I think I have probably discovered more about this type of fraud than you would like most of your impersonated customers to discover, meer53.

18 years in fraud department? You might need to get out occasionally and see it through the other end of the telescope. Talk to the Post Office and arrange to accompany one of their undercover surveillance team - as an important customer they'll surely share with you the gen on the problem postcodes as they see it which may differ in some respects from the way you see it. If you sit quietly in some postcodes after the posties have been, you might even catch yourself a dipper They seem to be more common than house sparrows where I live

You see yourself as a victim of one particular type of fraud. Every one of your posts states this, there are other types of fraud.
There is no "huge" problem with cards and PIN numbers being intercepted, certainly compared to other types of fraud. You are only able to advise other posters of one incident, i have experience of many more.

If thieves are as common as house sparrows where you live, have you thought of moving ?

jonesMUFCforever

VictimOfImpersonation wrote: »

So? Do you think that organised mailbox thieves would tell the OP to expect a card they had requested but the OP hadn't???

And would the fraud department necessarily tell the OP if they knew a new card had been requested by an impersonator? And what happens after a fraud like this is reported? Yes - yet another new card so no need to tell the OP if it happens to be the second new card in as many weeks unless the OP asks outright, eh?

If a new card had been ordered the old one would have stopped working - there is no evidence from OP that this has happened is there?

VictimOfImpersonation

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

If a new card had been ordered the old one would have stopped working - there is no evidence from OP that this has happened is there?

Nope - but then remember it was the card company that called the OP immediately next morning after the suspected fraudulent use. Why would the card company even suspected fraud unless it followed an event such as a new card just activated, and first use of a new card immediately in an ATM (where the limit could be checked by the fraudster) and then taking the card to the limit probably in an electrical store such as PC World?

Yeah yeah there could be a number of reasons, but one THE most likely is that a new card and reminder PIN or fresh PIN was requested, was intercepted, and was used at the ATM and XYZ Electrical immediately very soon after the new card and PIN were intercepted/activated and used to max out the account.

Unless the old card was reported lost instead of perhaps "damaged" then the old card would not be deactivated until the new one was used, would it?

I bet the OP lives somewhere where the mailbox can be dipped i.e. somewhere mail does not simply drop on their own carpet but instead is vulnerable to dipping e.g. in perhaps one of a bank of mailboxes outside a block of flats which incidentally are also likely to have been targeted.