Generali's 12 days of Christmas Quiz.

vivatifosi

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Our default position should always presume against taxation, unless a credible case can be made to the contrary.

That people have become so inured to the concept of taxation on everything is a sad state of affairs.

Personally Hamish, I would rather that tax was clearer. As it is, it is a mess and we can't see what we are paying and what we aren't because of the number of indirect taxes. Sales tax is something we have to pay, so there is absolutely no reason that it shouldn't be on a Mars Bar (it is) or on a packet of tortilla chips (it isn't), end of! Helicopters, even more so. My point was that we shouldn't have tax on basic foods in case the very poorest couldn't afford to eat. But not paying tax on biscuits, cakes etc doesn't make sense when we have b*gger all money as a country.

However I think the real issue is less how the money is gained and more how it is spent. Tax revenue shouldn't be wasted. We spent years under a Chancellor, then PM, who didn't believe in boom and bust and therefore spent money like it was water. That IMO is where the problem lies.

michaels

Weird, I 100% agree with you yet I am very uncomfortable with where the argument logically leads...if it was simple then it wouldn't be any fun

Generali wrote: »

I take the point but respond in 2 ways:

1. Who decides what is healthy and unhealthy? Often when I've been cycling and then 'bonked' a coke or a Mars bar is just what I need to get me home. A few muesli bars in the back pocket of my shirt keep me fuelled so I don't bonk in the first place. I put sugar in vegetable stir fries, a very healthy dish but they just want a little sweet to go with the sour &/or spice.
2. Who are you (or anyone else) to decide who should eat what? Reading is a sedentary activity. Why not tax that to support sporting facilities?

I'm being provocative here and I don't want to start an argument but the above examples explain why I'm a Libertarian. If someone wants to read or take cocaine or drink or cycle or hug trees or stand naked in a field screaming at the moon then let them IMHO. If you harm nobody else then you shouldn't be stopped or discouraged from doing whatever it is you want to do no matter if it's 'bad' for you.

vivatifosi

michaels wrote: »

.if it was simple then it wouldn't be any fun

Exactly!......

pqrdef

vivatifosi wrote: »

Personally Hamish, I would rather that tax was clearer. As it is, it is a mess

VAT was supposed to be simple flat rate on everything. But we Brits could never get on with that, because we're stuck on the idea that tax should be a punishment for sin, not just a revenue-raising device. We think that if we're good, we shouldn't pay tax, and we all think we're good.

John_Pierpoint

Can I shange my answer on tampons - I had forgotten that once a tax has been applied it cannot be reduced below 5%. [EU rules]

sabretoothtigger

sss555s wrote: »

I always remember that jaffa cake argument. Is it a cake or a biscuit?

No VAT is charged on cakes or biscuits but 20% VAT is charged on chocolate covered biscuits.

It's always been a biscuit to me :beer:

I must disagree as Iam a fan of Jaffa. If you were to stick or skewer all those 'biscuits' together it very much resembles a cake with jelly layers

Where as a giant kit kat is still a biscuit type sweet.

Same must apply to those Mr kipling fancy cake things, covered in icing and full of sugar but its basically a cake.
Again especially if you were to make a much larger version

To you and me, its a sweet but its cake based

Generali

pqrdef wrote: »

VAT was supposed to be simple flat rate on everything. But we Brits could never get on with that, because we're stuck on the idea that tax should be a punishment for sin, not just a revenue-raising device. We think that if we're good, we shouldn't pay tax, and we all think we're good.

My understanding was that VAT was originally a 'luxury tax'. Even when it was extended to things such as clothes, there were 2 rates, a normal and a luxury rate.

That's before my time though so I may be mistaken.

John_Pierpoint

VAT was part of the deal for going into the "Common Market". The first couple of percent is used to finance the EU - ie the Common Agricultural Policy etc., making farming by and large an austerity free zone, unless the wheels come off the unit of account..
The UK has been a slightly reluctant member of the VAT club, with rates at one time as low as 8%, exemptions and zero rates (ie subsidies) on several industries, with a relatively high initial registration level for small business.

It acts as an automatic subsidy for exports, thus constantly grating with our American cousins.

Cake goes hard as it goes stale, biscuits go soft.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/a-brief-history-of-vat-1593926.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_Kingdom

The successful self employed knowledge worker is paying tax at a marginal rate of approaching 70%, compare and contrast with the inherited wealth and income of a "Barley Barron".