Plumber's fault?

Kathy535

Hi. I have a quandry. I've been getting my 9yr old boiler serviced each autumn for the last 4 yrs by a very chatty plumber who makes a big deal of good relationships with his customers. Every year (in winter) it's played up with the same symptoms and every year he replaces something and the problem gets less bad (but doesn't go away). This year the problem has been major (no heating, no hot water rather than intermittent problems) and I couldn't face two hours of chatting about his life plus he's not managed to permanently fix it ever so I called out a different plumber.

His first words on taking the cover off were 'have you had this serviced?', the second words were 'sack your plumber'. It appears the condenser hasn't been emptied and has damaged the heat exchanger - the signs were apparently obvious and are long standing. There was a significant leak which shows signs of being there for several months also. There are other problems with the info on the service report (which states that the condenser was emptied btw).

So, I'm faced with a huge bill for something that could have been avoided. My problems are:
- is it feasible that the 2nd plumber is right when he says that 1st plumber has not done his job properly
- will my insurance cover the bill, I've done what I should have and got the boiler serviced - it's just not been done right
- can I / should I pursue the original plumber for the damage?

Advice welcomed, thank you

ariba10

I have no idea, but I have yet to see a tradesman that does not take a sharp intake of breath when he see's other peoples work.

kaya

It is a common misconception that plumbers know vey much about boilers, in order to gain your qualification and get gas safe registered(like a plumber) you need to know how to install and remove the gas connections to a boiler as well as place the flue pipe correctly, you dont have to know the inner workings or how to fix them, pumbers are often nice well meaning folk, but their experteese is usally limited to joining bits of pipe together . Thats why they are given the title of plumber rather than boiler engineer and thats what the majority of them should stick to doing , you should phone the manufacturer of your boiler up and get them to send a boiler engineer to sort your problems out, they will be trained properly on your specific boiler, have access to all the technical support they need and have 99% of the parts you may need on their van at the time , for any plumbers reading this that do know what they are doing i apologise for tarring you with the same brush as most of your colleagues but you should know exactly what i mean!

keystone

Its also a common misconception that anyone who touches water or gas for a living can be called a plumber. OP may have called their "heating engineer" "plumber" only by association or by mistake. As we don't know what the OP had in mind I don't see the point of your post TBH. But, in any event, yes I do know what you mean.

Cheers

keystone

Kathy535 wrote: »

Hi. I have a quandry. I've been getting my 9yr old boiler serviced each autumn for the last 4 yrs by a very chatty plumber who makes a big deal of good relationships with his customers. Every year (in winter) it's played up with the same symptoms and every year he replaces something and the problem gets less bad (but doesn't go away). This year the problem has been major (no heating, no hot water rather than intermittent problems) and I couldn't face two hours of chatting about his life plus he's not managed to permanently fix it ever so I called out a different plumber.

His first words on taking the cover off were 'have you had this serviced?', the second words were 'sack your plumber'. It appears the condenser hasn't been emptied and has damaged the heat exchanger - the signs were apparently obvious and are long standing. There was a significant leak which shows signs of being there for several months also. There are other problems with the info on the service report (which states that the condenser was emptied btw).

So, I'm faced with a huge bill for something that could have been avoided. My problems are:
- is it feasible that the 2nd plumber is right when he says that 1st plumber has not done his job properly
- will my insurance cover the bill, I've done what I should have and got the boiler serviced - it's just not been done right
- can I / should I pursue the original plumber for the damage?

Advice welcomed, thank you

1. Your first guy's customer relationship skills aren't relevant.

2. How do you actually know that the first guy didn't do a good job for you all this time?

3. How do you know that the second guy isn't spinning you a yarn and talking the job up?

The answer to both questions is that you don't. You have no evidence to go after the first guy for anything and no proof whatseoever that he has done anything wrong apart from an "opinion".

If the first guy has been negligent or incompetant than you may be in a position to look for some recompense but you would have to be that way inclined and be able to prove it. If you value your relationship with the first guy and he reciprocates it would be wrong not to give him a call and discuss the second guys "findings" with him.

If you chose to follow the second guy's advice and trust him implicitly then chalk it down to experience, pay the additional bill and get on with life.

Personally, in these circumstances I'd get another, independent, opinion before doing anything at all and that includes letting the second guy touch it.

Cheers

kaya

keystone wrote: »

Its also a common misconception that anyone who touches water or gas for a living can be called a plumber. OP may have called their "heating engineer" "plumber" only by association or by mistake. As we don't know what the OP had in mind I don't see the point of your post TBH. But, in any event, yes I do know what you mean.

Cheers

The point of my post was thus:
if you want your engine on your car repairing you shouldnt go to a tyre shop-you should go to a mechanic

if you want your dishwasher fixing you shouldnt go to an electrician or a plumber-you should phone a domestic appliance engineer

if you want your boiler repairing you shouldn't go to a plumber-you should contact a boiler engineer

Kathy535

I should have been more specific - sorry.

Kaya - When using the term 'plumber' I actually meant a gas-safe registered engineer as my understanding is that a plumber would not be qualified to safety repair a gas boiler. So, both men who came and fiddled with the boiler were professing to be qualified engineers. Apologies for the terminology and confusion.

Keystone - I couldn't have phrased myself very well. The first question I had 'is it feasible that the 2nd plumber is right when he says that 1st plumber has not done his job properly' is the problem around who do you believe. I wouldn't want to condemn one person on the say so of another. And, I don't value my 'relationship' with him because he hasn't ever managed to fix the issue despite 3 attempts and a fair amount of money paid out. Doesn't matter how chatty and pleasant someone is if they don't do the job you are paying them for! Point taken about the relevancy.

What I wanted advice on was whether what plumber no2 said was feasible - ie could a full condenser trap damage the heat exchanger and if so, could this happen in 2 months? Also, whether it's worth pursuing the original heating engineer - not just for the money but also in case he is negligent / incompetent and causes more than financial damage to someone else.

My post was on the basis of a fault that repeats every year and is never fixed. I wanted to get an idea of whether the insurance would be invalidated by a service that may not have be adequate and to find out whether pursuing is worth it or not.

Thanks for all your comments, I've been very happy to read them in the warm!!

keystone

kaya wrote: »

The point of my post was thus:
if you want your engine on your car repairing you shouldnt go to a tyre shop-you should go to a mechanic

if you want your dishwasher fixing you shouldnt go to an electrician or a plumber-you should phone a domestic appliance engineer

if you want your boiler repairing you shouldn't go to a plumber-you should contact a boiler engineer

Yes I know. I was only questioning its relevance soley in the context of this thread. But since OP has now clarified no harm done.

Cheers

keystone

travellerboy wrote: »

I would recommend an annual Boiler breakdown policy

Afraid I can't agree. You are actually much better of self insuring.

...........with Homeserve.........

ROFLMFAO! You are, of course, kidding - unless you work for this dire company of course.

Cheers

phill99

Both Kaya and Keystone have made some very pertinent points.

I've made this point before and I'll make it again: the vast majority of gas safe engineers have very poor diagnostic skills. Some have excellent diagnostic skills, but they are in the minority. This is why so many gas safe engineers are always keen to recommend a boiler change, especially if the boiler is more than 6 or 7 years old. Diagnostics are not effectively taught in college / by the apprecticeship route etc.

You need (as has been pointed out) a service engineer from the manufacturer. They are the guys that do servicing and diagnostics on your particular boiler.

In response to your questions:

You would need to get an independent report from a well qualified engineer (which will cost) to confirm a) what the problem is and b) that it was the previous engineers negligence that caused it. A) is quite straightforward, but b) is almost impossible as the heat exchanger could have broken yesterday and no engineer will put his name to paper to confirm otherwise.

The second plumber may be right, but he may be wrong.

In terms of insurance: Your household insurance doesn't cover boiler breakdowns. Its is for unforeseen perils - fire, flood, theft. it doesn't cover poor maintenance or bad workmanship.

You need to take it on the chin and get it fixed. Next time employ an engineer trained by the manufacturer, not somebody who thinks he can fix your boiler.

travellerboy

keystone wrote: »

Afraid I can't agree. You are actually much better of self insuring.

What is self insuring, do you mean do nothing?
I believe £84 /yr is good value for piece of mind and many other would agree. To correct the slightest fault will cost over £120 and is likely to occur at the least convenient time.