Putting home into family trust to avoid nursing home fees

seven-day-weekend

PennyForThem wrote: »

If you gift to children and live 7 years and/or spend your money so that you are below the limit you have to contribute for care - then I suppose you do have your cake....

Cannot really see the difference except that the person with the money has done some forward planning and may be has deprived themselves a little.


As per Pollycat's post where children have been helped.

Those of us who have helped our children have helped them while they needed the money and we didn't.

If someone is already in a nursing home, or about to go into one, then they need the money themselves, so are not in a position to help anyone.

Also, as stated above, by lesson learned, we are still able to fund our own care if necessary, we have just made sure our children are 'looked after', that's what parents do if they can.

And the seven-year thing is to do with inheritance tax, not care home fees, where they can delve back as long as they like if they think you have deliberately deprived yourself. However, if you do it while fit and healthy, then there is no need for them to think this.

That's the difference.

Doc_N

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Those of us who have helped our children have helped them while they needed the money and we didn't.

If someone is already in a nursing home, or about to go into one, then they need the money themselves, so are not in a position to help anyone.

Also, as stated above, by lesson learned, we are still able to fund our own care if necessary, we have just made sure our children are 'looked after', that's what parents do if they can.

And the seven-year thing is to do with inheritance tax, not care home fees, where they can delve back as long as they like if they think you have deliberately deprived yourself. However, if you do it while fit and healthy, then there is no need for them to think this.

That's the difference.

Very true. A great deal of pleasure to be had from helping one's children at the time they most need help, but I can appreciate that a non-parent might not understand that.

And giving to one's children to help them with a specific purpose in mind, such as a house purchase, at a relatively early stage in life when care home fees aren't really a consideration, is unlikely to trigger the deprivation of assets provisions.

Win, win - all round.

lessonlearned

Yes I would second SDWs post.

IHT rules are 7 years, care home rules re deprivation of assets are open ended.

So the only way to,help our children and play safe is to ensure we have sufficient funds or saleable assets to cover nursing fees - just in case.

Tbh I don't feel even remotely deprived. I don't need a large 4 bed family home, let a young family have it. I am perfectly happy to downsize. In fact my goal is to buy some land and build my very own "Mini Grand Design" - a tiny house Eco build, all white and minimalist......

Ive been steadily Decluttering in readiness.....:rotfl:

seven-day-weekend

lessonlearned wrote: »

Yes I would second SDWs post.

IHT rules are 7 years, care home rules re deprivation of assets are open ended.

So the only way to,help our children and play safe is to ensure we have sufficient funds or saleable assets to cover nursing fees - just in case.

Tbh I don't feel even remotely deprived. I don't need a large 4 bed family home, let a young family have it. I am perfectly happy to downsize. In fact my goal is to buy some land and build my very own "Mini Grand Design" - a tiny house Eco build, all white and minimalist......

Ive been steadily Decluttering in readiness.....:rotfl:

As some of you may now we have recently downsized to a two-bed bungalow (although we have upsized the garden) and our three bed house is now on the market.

(We knew the bungalow needed work, but that has turned into a Grand Design - however we hope to move in within the next couple of weeks ).

pollypenny

Doc_N wrote: »

Very true. A great deal of pleasure to be had from helping one's children at the time they most need help, but I can appreciate that a non-parent might not understand that.

And giving to one's children to help them with a specific purpose in mind, such as a house purchase, at a relatively early stage in life when care home fees aren't really a consideration, is unlikely to trigger the deprivation of assets provisions.

Win, win - all round.

I endorse your post and that of SDW. We must stress that there's a huge difference between helping our kids by passing on an older car, as they start work, or with a deposit for their first house, and expecting the tax payer to fund care so that our kids can inherit what would seem a fortune.

Pollycat

pollypenny wrote: »

I endorse your post and that of SDW. We must stress that there's a huge difference between helping our kids by passing on an older car, as they start work, or with a deposit for their first house, and expecting the tax payer to fund care so that our kids can inherit what would seem a fortune.

I agree with the above.
Just a reminder of the post that started this thread, way back in Sept 2011

Veryannoyed wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm not prepared to lose my only asset, my home, to pay nursing home fees so I'm considering putting it into a family trust with my children as the beneficiaries.

We're already likely to lose my mother's home for this reason (her fees are £46,000 a year) and if there is a legal way of making sure our children inherit all we have worked so hard for over the years then we will take it.

The PCT / social services have been entirely ruthless in the way they have dealt with the family over my mother's case and although we did achieve full funding for her for a while it was quickly removed.

I'm going to be equally ruthless in preventing them from getting their hands on my hard earned cash.

It's this attitude that I find distasteful.

lessonlearned

I agree, it is very distasteful but I'm afraid some people are just plain greedy and selfish.

I do appreciate that people of my parents generation may not have a lot of money tied up in their houses. lMy own parents owned their own home, but it was only a modest cottage - there was no scope to downsize the way I have done in order to pass money down tonext generation. Plus, they really did not expect to live so long.

My dad retired at 55 having had two heart attacks. We all thought he had a couple of years at most. Thanks to the wonders of medical science he's still going strong at the age of 89......:rotfl

I shall inherit little, if anything but I'm not even remotely concerned. I will use every last penny that dad has to,ensure that he is comfortable and well looked after, same with FIL.

My point is if you are in your 50s, 60s and even early 70s you do have time to make plans. You can make arrangements that are both legal and morally right.

You can in effect have your cake and eat it too.

You can pass some money onto your kids whilst at the same time protecting your own fiancial future. All it takes is a bit of forward planning, a bit of flexible thinking and a chunk of effort....:;)

My late husband and i wanted to help our children, and knowing that widowhood was on the horizon I resolved that I didnt want to be struggling with a large family home, garden etc. I watched my parents fall into that trap and their home fall into,rack,and ruin because they could no longer manage it but mum was so stubborn, she wouldn't move to a bungalow or something more suited to her needs.

I'm not quite ready for my final move yet but when I do I know exactly what I want. I want a light filled space, easy to manage, charming and beautiful in it's simplicity. It will be wheelchair friendly, even the outside, and the garden will be a small Japanese style oasis of peace and tranquility that requires only the minimum of maintenance.

As many of you know I have worked in and around the property industry for decades, plus I have also been a manger in a sheltered housing complex.

From what I've learned both from my career and as a carer for my husband when he became disabled, I honestly think that the key to a happy and stress free old age lies in finding the right accommodation to meet our,changing needs.

I think that if more people planned for this in advance, then a lot of us could avoid the need for going into care, at least until the final stages.

Mojisola

lessonlearned wrote: »

From what I've learned both from my career and as a carer for my husband when he became disabled, I honestly think that the key to a happy and stress free old age lies in finding the right accommodation to meet our,changing needs.

I think that if more people planned for this in advance, then a lot of us could avoid the need for going into care, at least until the final stages.

Heartily agree with all your post!

If we can be realistic about our futures and make relevant changes in time, our later years will be much smoother.

Sometimes health changes happen suddenly and catch us out but most of us do get time to plan ahead.

SevenOfNine

How can one plan in advance how much care they may need (if any), for how long, and what the cost may be? Full time nursing care may be required, or severe mental capacity issues (altzheimers/dementia etc) lasting many years & costing a fortune. It may not necessarily be just lack of physical mobility in your own home that needs catering for.

Helping ones children get a foot on the housing ladder by 'gifting', (presumably relatively large) sums of money towards deposits, hmmm, isn't that giving it away whilst still fit & healthy.............exactly what the OP has suggested, just without the comments about doing so specifically to avoid care home fees?

Surely it's yet to be determined whether you have kept enough 'back' to fund ALL you may need to provide 100% of possible care cost? Might someone judge you in the future, saying "the taxpayer wouldn't have had to chip in quite so much if she hadn't given away thousands to X & Y 20 years ago".

You've 'given it away', albeit for what is considered a more valid reason, to help your children as opposed to avoiding care home fees, but a chunk of it is still gone and unavailable for possible care fees. Same difference!

zygurat789

SevenOfNine wrote: »

How can one plan in advance how much care they may need (if any), for how long, and what the cost may be? Full time nursing care may be required, or severe mental capacity issues (altzheimers/dementia etc) lasting many years & costing a fortune. It may not necessarily be just lack of physical mobility in your own home that needs catering for.

Helping ones children get a foot on the housing ladder by 'gifting', (presumably relatively large) sums of money towards deposits, hmmm, isn't that giving it away whilst still fit & healthy.............exactly what the OP has suggested, just without the comments about doing so specifically to avoid care home fees?

Surely it's yet to be determined whether you have kept enough 'back' to fund ALL you may need to provide 100% of possible care cost? Might someone judge you in the future, saying "the taxpayer wouldn't have had to chip in quite so much if she hadn't given away thousands to X & Y 20 years ago".

You've 'given it away', albeit for what is considered a more valid reason, to help your children as opposed to avoiding care home fees, but a chunk of it is still gone and unavailable for possible care fees. Same difference!

The average life expectancy with Alzheimer's is 8 years from the onset of symptoms. Otherwise going into a nursing home tends to be fairly short term.