Joint account for bills - stuck in a cycle of debt

ViolaLass

gfplux wrote: »

Again as a man I say get rid of him, he will not change, men rarely do.

Not true, anyone can change if they want to. This man, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have any intention of changing.

OP, are you really going to have a baby with someone whose cards you have to hide to stop him spending money he doesn't have?

ktb

ninnoodle wrote: »

.... the joint account is only used for the bills and we transfer a set amount across every month.

Erm... no i'm afraid it's not. It is used as spending money by your OH and in actual fact he is STEALING from you.

If my OH had spent (stolen) money from our joint bills account without consulting me, let alone overdrawing it to the point that bills were going unpaid, I would be mortified, horrified and FURIOUS and would be seriously be reconsidering our future together. We are an equal partnership with equal responsibility and if he was selfish & disrespectful enough to act in a way that could see us without heating, water or god forbid, a roof over our heads (let alone the damage he is doing to your credit rating without making you aware!) I would wonder what on earth I was doing with him?!?

More importantly, if we were considering having a family, I would seriously have to wonder if he'd be be prepared to put our kids in that same situation or if he was the kind of person that will make the necessary sacrifices as a Father. There are so many posts on here about f3ckless ones - I would certainly be heeding the warning signs he is giving you LOUD & CLEAR!!

Don't get me wrong - I totally understand that people make mistakes and errors in judgement and I wholeheartedly believe in second chances - but only where acceptance, remorse & a willingness to rectify things come into play! Actions speak louder than words, so if your OH isn't demonstrating any of these things, what does that tell you?

Are you 100% positive that you want this person to be the father of your (obviously much wanted) child/ren?? Is this really the father figure and role model that you are actively choosing? You mention not getting any younger - I wonder if this is massively clouding your judgement about your 'partner'..... coz he certainly doesn't sound anything like a partner to me! :eek:

Tuesday_Tenor

I understand the joint bills account is equally funded by each of you, with the intention of paying bills only.
>>> I found we had a £2200 overdraft which was fully spent, my OH had regularly taken out cash and had also set up a direct debit to pay off his personal credit card!
He has in fact stolen this money from you as you did not agree to this use of your contribution to this joint account.

1) Facing the problem:
This man has debts of £21,000.
It is going to take him decades to pay this off if he pays only the minimum payments.
He steals from you.
If he gets a poor credit rating it will affect you as well as you have a joint mortgage.

However 'hopeless with money' he is, he needs to face up to the fact that there are a lot of problems arising from his 'hopelessness'.
Show him this thread so that he can see it in black and white.

2) Understanding how he got to this mess:
If the cause of the debts has been 'silly spending' and this is now addressed, then good. Are you clear what it has all been spent on? Was it debts from years back, or is he likely to still try to live beyond his means? Does he have another problem, such as gambling? Are there any inbuilt unfairnesses between you, e.g. has he racked up some of the debts on house purchase costs or renovations which were really joint items?

3) The way forward
Other posters are giving advice on how to move forward, so I won't say much..

It might be good if you EACH do a separate SOA at this stage just so that you can see the wood for the trees. Even, or especially, if he gives over the responsibility for sorting it out to you, he needs to provide the information so that decisions about what to do can be made. .

IF you are staying together, and IF he is going to continue to be so hopeless, then you might have to agree that you take over sorting it all out, and he is only allowed 'pocket money'. I think this is a dreadful way for an adult to have to live, but it sometimnes, sadly, seems to be necessary.

Good luck on sorting it all out. You have more love and/or patience than I would have. I would have lost respect for this man long ago.

paddy's_mum

Why would any woman in her right mind choose a liar, thief, trickster and manipulator as the father of her child?

Can you really afford this man?

ninnoodle

Wow, thanks for the replies, I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply.
To be honest I am quite shocked at the reaction here to him. Of course I was mad, really mad at him but because he made out I was nagging him I have tried to approach it in a less 'judgemental' way. He just won't listen, he hates 'talking', he won't communicate. Perhaps this is a wake-up call....
Anyway, to answer some of the replies....

You mention you have savings, use them to help your family because we do all have failings and quite clearly one of his is that he is awful with money.

I've only saved up £1K, and to be honest, this is for me incase the worst happens. I have to look after myself first.
I can try some of the suggestions of setting up a new account in my name only, but he would think I was being ridiculous. I know how serious this is - he doesn't seem to comprehend. He thinks I am being ridiculous by not spending any money on non-essentials and by trying to cut back on electricity etc. On paper it sounds awful - in real life I suppose you end up compromising, and fighting for the relationship.
I did ask how could we afford a child the way things were? His response was once we clear the overdraft (which is an authorised one btw, just not an authorised one that I want) and he starts to pay chunks of his debt from the sales of the cars and his bonus, then we will be fine.

I presume you're not eligible for NHS IVF if you're having to pay?

Yes, we are – but the waiting list here is 2 years long, by which time I will be nearly forty and the NHS doesn't fund women 40+ for IVF. Plus, my chances of conceiving by that time will have dropped from 25% to 10% apparently. So time is tight. It's not a great time I know but what else can I do? Lose my possibly only chance of conceiving?

gfplux wrote: »

Well said Dina93,
As a man the op's other half makes me ashamed. He does not deserve to be in a good relationship. I question wether he wants to be. Is his spending something to do with the costs of IVF that will be needed next year?
Again as a man I say get rid of him, he will not change, men rarely do.

I do know he wants a child more than anything – it was him that suggested trying in the first place, and there have been times where I've been ready to give up the fight and think well, perhaps it's never meant to be, but he has spurred me on and helped me to keep going. And this all happened before we even knew we would have to go the route of IVF. But, I do think you are right that he will never change.

Are you clear what it has all been spent on? Was it debts from years back, or is he likely to still try to live beyond his means? Does he have another problem, such as gambling? Are there any inbuilt unfairnesses between you, e.g. has he racked up some of the debts on house purchase costs or renovations which were really joint items?

Well to be fair, I think he has had a bit of a wake-up call. He doesn't have any gambling habit or problem like that, I think his head is still in 2004 where we all had money (or at least cheap credit) and could spend! He has been very slow for the penny to drop that it's not those days anymore. The debts he has racked up are £11K on credit cards (that he said had just built up over years) and £10K on a bridging loan when we moved from his house to a joint one. I have asked to see the terms of the bridging loan but they haven't been forthcoming so far (but then again, I haven't asked him again since we had the big argument about the debt).

Anyway, this whole thread has justified to me what is at the back of my mind but I guess what I don't want to admit. In the event we did happen to split though – I cannot see how I could afford to move out.

Any

Sweetie of course he doesn't want to talk about it and he pretends is ok and you are blowing it out of proportion... No one finds it easy to admit a mistake, especially this serious and with this affect!!!
But it is your future this is destroying and no matter how big your love is and how unintentional his doings might be (ie he does not really realise full effects and that it is actual stealing), firstly and mainly you have to look after yourself.

Don't really know what you mean you cannot afford to move out-you definitely cannot afford to stay if he is not gonna change his ways!!!!!!!

Any

The thing is, the longer the problem is going to be ignored for the more drastic the fall will be-we are not talking about not buying as nice labels or go out a little less-we are talking about finding it hard to even find somewhere to rent and Tesco basics all the way!! The bigger the debt is,the higher the interest, charges etc becomes until it becomes really unmanageable. That is then not called life.
That is the worse case scenario, but don't kid yourself, if he reaches for such a drastic measures as reaching for joint account he is heading there!!!

ninnoodle

Any wrote: »

Sweetie of course he doesn't want to talk about it and he pretends is ok and you are blowing it out of proportion... No one finds it easy to admit a mistake, especially this serious and with this affect!!!
But it is your future this is destroying and no matter how big your love is and how unintentional his doings might be (ie he does not really realise full effects and that it is actual stealing), firstly and mainly you have to look after yourself.

Don't really know what you mean you cannot afford to move out-you definitely cannot afford to stay if he is not gonna change his ways!!!!!!!

I know this - I am not the one that needs convincing how serious it all is but what do I do? I have tried everything I can possibly think of.

By not being able to afford to move out - half my income goes on the mortgage and bills, then another half of the half that is left goes on my own bills such as my car, phone etc. I cannot afford to pay rent and another set of bills on top of this.

Any

ninnoodle wrote: »

I know this - I am not the one that needs convincing how serious it all is but what do I do? I have tried everything I can possibly think of.

By not being able to afford to move out - half my income goes on the mortgage and bills, then another half of the half that is left goes on my own bills such as my car, phone etc. I cannot afford to pay rent and another set of bills on top of this.

I see, I understand where you are coming from. The split would be drastic, sale of house and move would probably be on cards. Lets hope it does not come to it.
But you cannot let it go the way where you are trying to make up the shortfall and loose the house in the end anyway.
I wish you best of luck-it is not easy situation to be in, I know. I nearly made that move. But all I could see otherwise was me working all hours and denying myself life and luxuries I could afford if he wasn't spending selfishly on himself.
In my case this turned things around, but I don't know you or you OH so cannot say that is the best way to go if you are not really in it with your heart. I wasn't 'threatening' to leave, I was actually willing to go through that as my mother is useless with money and I know the full effects and the life that follows. I did not go to uni while working full time and bettering my earnings prospects for someone else selfishly reaking in the benefits. It built resentment in me and only my OH's action there after changed my mind and made me to fall in love with him again.
It was long journey, lots of stress and tears before the' break up' nd until this day I don't understand how he made it work in the end. Not sure many people can. You deserve respect - and taking YOUR money out of joint finances (which is what it is, if he cannot pay his share you have to) is not appreciating you enough.

BitterAndTwisted

Get the local paper out and circle a few cheap flats and leave it somewhere for him to find it. If you can't get through to him about how very serious the situation is, making plans to leave, or looking like you are may just bring home to him how very near the edge you are.

See, if you can bring yourself to leave you won't be paying half of the mortgage or half of the bills for running the house, so that half of your income that you're committing to the house now would be for your own rent and bills.

There are worse things than losing a house. Shackling yourself and becoming dependent by having a child with someone while the situation remains as it is now could be a thousand times more dreadful.