Joint account for bills - stuck in a cycle of debt

4nnabella

You may have already tried this but have you at any point sat him down and gone through your budgets, incomings, outgoings, etc so he can clearly see in black and white exactly how much all this debt is costing in charges, and exactly what you have to live on? That may make him understand without him feeling like you are accusing him of wasting money (which he undoubtedly is doing but it would appear you need to try another approach.. )

You can do an SOA here http://www.makesenseofcards.com/soacalc.html

(sorry in advance if you have already done this...)

ninnoodle

4nnabella wrote: »

You may have already tried this but have you at any point sat him down and gone through your budgets, incomings, outgoings, etc so he can clearly see in black and white exactly how much all this debt is costing in charges, and exactly what you have to live on? That may make him understand without him feeling like you are accusing him of wasting money (which he undoubtedly is doing but it would appear you need to try another approach.. )

You can do an SOA here http://www.makesenseofcards.com/soacalc.html

(sorry in advance if you have already done this...)

Thanks for this. I haven't done the full SOA but I did send him all the bank charges in black and white (our printer doesn't work), the dates and what they were for. £65 in charges some months! We are permanently maxed out on the £2200 overdraft, and once it gets a little bit clear, along comes another charge, or an unexpected cost, or a quarterly bill. Anyhoo, his reaction to that was 'no way, that's pretty bad - yeah you go and try and recover the charges from the bank.' Ugh!

We are trying also for a baby and will have to pay for IVF next year(another £5K). I wanted to sell my car and save next year to help pay for this. He is thinking if we sell my car and his, then get a cheaper car, that will get rid of the debt, and our work bonuses in March will pay for the IVF. Whereas I wanted to save as much as possible, for the IVF, and save my bonus for the possibility of a baby coming along. Maybe a SOA will be another wakeup call, so thanks.

daska

OP he is taking liberties with your financial and emotional health. The question is do you want to try to sort it out and stay with him or is it time to walk away?

If you want to walk away then the overdraft on the bill a/c is joint so you are liable for that debt, are you willing to take it on? You will need to sort out getting your name off the mortgage which in this climate and with his credit history will quite probably mean forcing the sale of the house. Can you cope with the mortgage payments on your own, if not you need to speak with the mortgage company and sort something out. If he's awful with money usually he'll quite likely be worse if you leave.

If you want to try to make it work is he willing to get his work to pay his wages into the bill a/c or set up a STO from his personal a/c to the bill a/c. If so, get his name taken off the bill a/c so that you can control the outgoings. Check that a/c EVERY DAY while he still has access to it and make sure you know what day/s payments should go into it! The moment his wages don't arrive you deal with it. Separate your finances completely, no joint accounts, credit cards, anything.

The one thing you must NOT do is leave him in charge of making payments for any loan/mortgage/credit that you are liable for.

And, to a certain extent, you have to stop worrying about his personal finances until you've built up a buffer to cope with when it all goes totally pear shaped because there is every chance that it will. There is a real risk that at some point he will become unable to service the charges he's paying and at that point you could be forced to sell the house anyway.

4nnabella

Good luck

I agree that your approach is the more sensible one with regards to saving for a family. One thing to bear in mind is whether your bonuses are guaranteed? We get one at my work, but it is performance related, so I never like to count on getting it until it has been announced. That could be another element of your approach... i.e. that you can't count on getting the bonus until you have definitely been told it is secure, just in case it doesn't happen...

ninnoodle

daska wrote: »

OP he is taking liberties with your financial and emotional health. The question is do you want to try to sort it out and stay with him or is it time to walk away?

If you want to walk away then the overdraft on the bill a/c is joint so you are liable for that debt, are you willing to take it on? You will need to sort out getting your name off the mortgage which in this climate and with his credit history will quite probably mean forcing the sale of the house. Can you cope with the mortgage payments on your own, if not you need to speak with the mortgage company and sort something out. If he's awful with money usually he'll quite likely be worse if you leave.

If you want to try to make it work is he willing to get his work to pay his wages into the bill a/c or set up a STO from his personal a/c to the bill a/c. If so, get his name taken off the bill a/c so that you can control the outgoings. Check that a/c EVERY DAY while he still has access to it and make sure you know what day/s payments should go into it! The moment his wages don't arrive you deal with it. Separate your finances completely, no joint accounts, credit cards, anything.

The one thing you must NOT do is leave him in charge of making payments for any loan/mortgage/credit that you are liable for.

And, to a certain extent, you have to stop worrying about his personal finances until you've built up a buffer to cope with when it all goes totally pear shaped because there is every chance that it will. There is a real risk that at some point he will become unable to service the charges he's paying and at that point you could be forced to sell the house anyway.

Yes, if we did happen to split, there is no way one of us could make the mortgage payments alone. It would mean selling the house. I have thought about this and have been saving some money of my own incase the worst happens.

But, we both have a separate but joint account for our bills. Into that we each pay £1300 a month to cover the bills and mortgage. But what is not being paid is the £2200 overdraft, and we are constantly paying out charges from the bank for being so overdrawn. As long as this is paid off and we are 'clean' for this account then I will be (relatively) happy. The trouble is, OH has so much personal debt, he has no spare money to pay for anything. And because he has so much debt himself, this impacts us both as means we cannot save for things together.

ninnoodle

4nnabella wrote: »

Good luck

I agree that your approach is the more sensible one with regards to saving for a family. One thing to bear in mind is whether your bonuses are guaranteed? We get one at my work, but it is performance related, so I never like to count on getting it until it has been announced. That could be another element of your approach... i.e. that you can't count on getting the bonus until you have definitely been told it is secure, just in case it doesn't happen...

The bonuses are pretty much guaranteed - although they are performance related to some extent (if you do well, you get more), everyone will get at least something.

Any

albionrovers wrote: »

I never get these type of threads.
Anyone who has 'threatened to leave or else' - it's already over? Leave ASAP?

I never get these types of replies.

Really? How? Why? Obviously not, 8 years down the line we are still together with nearly no debt what so ever.

Sometimes people deserve a second chance, it is the way they stand up to it that counts. Problem is to admit to a problem first, with now a days society where living off credit cards is completely normal and people have no basic financial education that sometimes takes a while.

I don't regret the choices I have made. I am a fighter (as long as there is a chance), not a runner.

Not everyone is like that obviously, some will let others to drag them down, others will not take the chance at all.

Only the partner knows whether there is a chance, or reason to fight.

January20

I think the first thing you should do OP is post this question on the DFW board as people there have tons of experience and ideas. You will no doubt be asked to put up a statement of affairs and you will get a lot of advice.

You know that you credit record is being affected by having financial products with your OH and you know that should you split up (although I know you said you weren't thinking about it) the bank will want the money from either of you and they won't care which, don't you?

Would it be possible to get your OH to give you his share of the bills every month, transfer all the bills to your account and set up a direct debit to pay off the overdraft on the joint account, with a view of closing it when the overdraft has been repaid? It won't save all the problems but it will put you in control. You have no choice really. Your OH is rubbish with money so you have to deal with the situation appropriately. Some may call it mothering him, I would just say it's being realistic and taking steps to cope.

Be careful also as you may have the debit card at the moment but he could possibly approach the bank and get another sent to him. You really ought to make the account such that both your signatures are required for payments. It may mean relinquishing the debit card facility (not knowledgeable enough sorry).

You can't make your OH be better with money until he is ready. This may be never. In the meantime, you have to protect yourself and your financial future.

ninnoodle

January20 - thanks for your suggestion. I may possibly be able to get my OH to transfer the bills to my account, although not sure he would be so keen. Do you mean for me to pay off the overdraft myself? Because he hasn't got any spare cash to. He also doesn't see the urgency in clearing the overdraft when it's there. But yes, I may seek advice also on the DFW board - they are very helpful there too!

RAS

ninnoodle wrote: »

Yes, if we did happen to split, there is no way one of us could make the mortgage payments alone. It would mean selling the house. I have thought about this and have been saving some money of my own incase the worst happens.

But, we both have a separate but joint account for our bills. Into that we each pay £1300 a month to cover the bills and mortgage. But what is not being paid is the £2200 overdraft.

OP.

Do you understand the concept of joint and several liability; that in law you are fully responsible for repaying the whole mortgage and the whole overdraft, as is your OH?

Do you understand that your own credit rating is already seriously wrecked by his actions?

Do you understand that if you get to the point where there is equity in the property, your OH's creditors will go for CCJs and Charging Orders to secure the debts he owes them. OK, on a joint mortgage if you are lucky and they do not get it right, when you sell there may be a get-out but creditors are beginning to learn from their previous mistakes and get it right.

You would be wise to open a new account in your name only to deal with joint expenditure so that you can make payments out without incurring bank charges. Get the £1300 paid into that and make sure the mortgage is paid.

I suggest you both get all three of your credit records form the reference agencies to see what the siuation is (there are freebies available but make sure you cancel the deals).

Then save up if you can (or sell stuff), get your OH's signature to close the joint account and pay it off and close it.

That still leaves the mortgage unfortunately.

I think you need to postpone any idea of IVF for a while. You need to know that your OH can support you sufficiently to cover any gap between your mat pay and living costs before you go there.