New power of attorney guide

Primrose

HELP ! My husband and I will shortly be despatching our completed forms for registration. We're making both type of LPA and have three attorneys each so need to give them each a copy once they are registered.

Can you order extra certified copies at time of registering?

Have read you can certify them yourselves with specific wording but this means writing out the declaration and signing on each page (20 pages each document x 4 documents which means writing out and signing the declaration 80 times.

Is there is an easier cheap way done at Registering source? . This is like being given 100 lines to write at school!

Sope

You've got me thinking about this now as we are in a similar situation.... 2 LPA's with 4 attorneys each.

For reference, here's what the OPG says regarding certified copies...
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify

Having looked around online here's what I've seen mentioned on the subject....

The OPG used to provide 2 free certified copies but now they charge £35 each!

Solicitors tend to charge too at varying cost although occasionally for free if you are a good customer, or more likely you used them to register the LPA in the first place!

Most financial institutions would make their own copies of the original which are kept on file for future reference, so the original would not need to be presented every time?
I'm presuming this would mean that any attorney named on the LPA could then act on the donor's behalf at said institution, without being required to present another certified copy (or the original) on every subsequent occasion?

It would be sensible to never send the original by post in case it gets lost/damaged/unreturned!

I have also seen mentioned that it may be acceptable for the statements themselves to be added to each page of the copies using a rubber stamp or more conveniently added to one copy and then that copy reproduced before signing. At least that way it's only the wet-ink dated signatures that need to be added by hand?

I'm thinking....
scan the original into a PC, annotate the scanned image appropriately, print the required number of copies and finally sign and date each by hand.
....still a lot of signatures but a little less painful?

I'll be interested to hear how others have overcome this hurdle?

Primrose

Thank you for your response. I,m glad somebody else has found themselves in a similar position. It seems that the Office of Public Guardian Guardian is being less than helpful in this very practical issue and needs to have feedback sent to them.

Perhaps it might help if everybody who has filed an application suggests to them that once any document is registered the donor ought to be sent sufficient free certified copies to distribute to each of their named attorneys.

I don't think this is an unreasonable request. Many people will not have photocopying /scanning facilities readily available. if this is not possible sufficient copies for all attorneys ought to be despatched to the donor at a nominal fee. £35 a copy is totally unreasonable on top of the original filing charges.

silvercar

Primrose wrote: »

I've completed my online P of As and reached the stage where it says "At the next stage your form(s) will be ready to download and sign with the information shown above.
You won't be able to change anything in the LPA once you have confirmed and paid."

It looks as if you actually have to pay the fee before you can download and print off the forms for signing and witnessing.
Is this correct?

I would really prefer to download the forms, see them "in the flesh" and have them ready for signing before I pay two sets of fess.

Can anybody who has done their P of A via the online process advise the exact order in which things happen? Thanks

As already said, you can choose the pay by cheque option.

I've had confirmation that mine have been received and are all correct.

silvercar

Primrose wrote: »

HELP ! My husband and I will shortly be despatching our completed forms for registration. We're making both type of LPA and have three attorneys each so need to give them each a copy once they are registered.

Can you order extra certified copies at time of registering?

Have read you can certify them yourselves with specific wording but this means writing out the declaration and signing on each page (20 pages each document x 4 documents which means writing out and signing the declaration 80 times.

Is there is an easier cheap way done at Registering source? . This is like being given 100 lines to write at school!

Can you scan them and then send the attorneys digital copies?

Primrose

silvercar wrote: »

Can you scan them and then send the attorneys digital copies?

No u fortunately that won't work. Knowing how easy it is for things to go missing in the post or to get mislaid within financial institutions most donors will want to keep hold of their original copies and give certified copies to their attorneys. . (Believe me, I have acted twice as P of A, and in both cases have experienced copies of P of A documents being lost somewhere in somebody's system. .) NEVER, EVER LET YOUR ORIGINAL P Of A DOCUMENT OUT OF YOUR POSSESSION !

Many institutions still don't properly understand how P of A documents work and those which do will need to ensure that they are being given a properly certified copy if it's not the original. The best thing to do is to present a copy of the document personally to a bank or other organisation and get them to make a photocopy on the spot but some attorneys live a long way from the donor and are forced to deal with issues by post. In such cases, if the document they send is not a properly "certified copy" institutions may reject it and then the attorney find themselves in an impossible position if they don't have access to the original document.

Never under estimate how incompetent some organisations can be in dealing with attorneys. Some have trained their staff well and things go smoothly but you cannot take this for granted and you as an attorney not having the correctly certified document will only add to your stress at an already difficult time.

That is why, having trodden this difficult path twice as an attorney for other people, I want to make life as uncomplicated as possible for those who have offered to do this task for me.

Sope

silvercar wrote: »

I've had confirmation that mine have been received and are all correct.

How long was it between posting the forms and receiving this confirmation?

silvercar wrote: »

Can you scan them and then send the attorneys digital copies?

I was under the impression that each certified copy must be signed individually (ie. bearing an original "wet" signature) rather than being a copy of an exisiting signed copy... if that makes sense :huh:

Sope

Another thing to bear in mind when creating an LPA is that...

"You must write to OPG if one of your attorneys has changed their:

• name - by marriage or deed poll
• address

You need to provide supporting documents, such as the original marriage certificate, with their new name and
address."

Likewise.....

"If one of your attorneys dies
You must tell OPG and send them:

• a copy of their death certificate
• the original LPA
• all certified copies of the LPA

• a return address where your documents can be sent back to"

Lots of additional admin to bear in mind especially with multiple attorneys in the event of address changes or with sole attorneys in the event of their death!

Primrose

Sope wrote: »

Another thing to bear in mind when creating an LPA is that...

"You must write to OPG if one of your attorneys has changed their:

• name - by marriage or deed poll
• address

You need to provide supporting documents, such as the original marriage certificate, with their new name and
address."

Likewise.....

"If one of your attorneys dies
You must tell OPG and send them:

• a copy of their death certificate
• the original LPA
• all certified copies of the LPA

• a return address where your documents can be sent back to"

Lots of additional admin to bear in mind especially with multiple attorneys in the event of address changes or with sole attorneys in the event of their death!

I'm surprised you have to return all certified copies of the LPA if one attorney dies. This would surely prevent the others from operating if they are designated to operate jointly and severally and need access to their certified copies to continue functioning?

We still have a former Enduring Power of Attorney in our filing cabinet which has never been registered where one attorney has changed address. Does this make it invalid?

Sope

Primrose wrote: »

I'm surprised you have to return all certified copies of the LPA if one attorney dies. This would surely prevent the others from operating if they are designated to operate jointly and severally and need access to their certified copies to continue functioning?

Indeed

Primrose wrote: »

We still have a former Enduring Power of Attorney in our filing cabinet which has never been registered where one attorney has changed address. Does this make it invalid?

Could prove a problem when the time comes to register it. Would depend on how the OPG go about processing an LPA.... do they check the current addresses of the named attorneys are all correct and up to date at the time of registration, or is it up to the attorney to prove their details match the LPA only at the time when they actually come to use it?

If it had already been successfully registered, my guess would be that it could still be used but only by those whose details are still valid?
Presumably when presenting an LPA to a financial institution they would require proof of ID and current address only from that particular attorney who wants to act on the donor's behalf rather than everybody named?

Wouldn't know for sure until you tried.