Atheist and the nativity

starrystarry

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I'm neither, so sorry to burst your bubble.

As I do not believe in it and will not unless God were to make it clear to me then I am in no way embarrassed to stand up for God and His values. Thanks for your concern though.

So...you won't believe in evolution unless god tells you it's true. Perfect. Just perfect.

peachyprice

Torry_Quine wrote: »

We were created in the image of God but as you don't believe in Him I don't have a problem with you not believing in that.

Why would god create athesist who do not believe in him?

Torry_Quine

starrystarry wrote: »

So...you won't believe in evolution unless god tells you it's true. Perfect. Just perfect.

God has shown me how he created the world, therefore if it were to be anything different He would need to show me.

peachyprice wrote: »

Why would god create athesist who do not believe in him?

As you don't even believe in God then you don't think that you were created by God.

However God created us with the free-will whether to believe in Him or not.

starrystarry

Torry_Quine wrote: »

God has shown me how he created the world, therefore if it were to be anything different He would need to show me.

How did god show you this?

peachyprice

Torry_Quine wrote: »

God has shown me how he created the world, therefore if it were to be anything different He would need to show me.

How has he shown you how he created the world? I'm not being obtuse at all, I just don't understand how god could have shown you, in particular, how he created the world. Are you talking about the stories in the bible or did you have a vision of some sort?

As you don't even believe in God then you don't think that you were created by God.

You're right, I believe the scientific proof that we evolved, all of us.

However God created us with the free-will whether to believe in Him or not.

But why? Why would he do that. Why would he create a creature that has no belief in him who could in theory destroy all of those who do? That makes no sense, he could have just made everyone believe couldn't he?

Torry_Quine

starrystarry wrote: »

How did god show you this?

Through divine revelation which you no doubt think is a delusion.

peachyprice wrote: »

How has he shown you how he created the world? I'm not being obtuse at all, I just don't understand how god could have shown you, in particular, how he created the world. Are you talking about the stories in the bible or did you have a vision of some sort?





You're right, I believe the scientific proof that we evolved, all of us.


But why? Why would he do that. Why would he create a creature that has no belief in him who could in theory destroy all of those who do? That makes no sense, he could have just made everyone believe couldn't he?

If He hadn't given us the free-will to choose whether to follow Him or not then we would not be human but merely some kind of automaton. Yes those who don't believe in Him could destroy those who do and in many cases that happens.

starrystarry

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Through divine revelation which you no doubt think is a delusion.

Could you explain what "divine revelation" means?

Also, not sure what "Yes those who don't believe in Him could destroy those who do and in many cases that happens" means. Could you explain?

Torry_Quine

starrystarry wrote: »

Could you explain what "divine revelation" means?

Also, not sure what "Yes those who don't believe in Him could destroy those who do and in many cases that happens" means. Could you explain?

Divine revelation means God communicating directly with his people. This can take many forms, through his word, through prophesy, the world around us and when someone else gets a message for us.

Many people are still martyred for their faith throughout the world though thankfully not here.

Newly_retired

Sorry to interrupt this "theological" discussion, but to go back to the OP's problem of surprise to hear her daughter's school is doing a nativity play....

As a French teacher I was telling my pupils about the secular French schools and getting them to think what that would mean in practice

- no education about religions, Jewish, Christian or Muslim or any other, so resulting in difficulty in understanding various aspects of history, literature, music, art ...

- no assemblies so no opportunity for collective thinking about matters of morality, behaviour, attitudes etc

but what struck them as the most unfortunate of omissions was the Nativity Play. All those girls had fond memories of the Nativity plays and Carol services of their primary school days and could not imagine school without them. It does not mean they all became committed Christians as a result, but they were well versed in their cultural heritage.

starrystarry

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Divine revelation means God communicating directly with his people. This can take many forms, through his word, through prophesy, the world around us and when someone else gets a message for us.

Many people are still martyred for their faith throughout the world though thankfully not here.

So what did divine revelation mean in your case? How did god show you that he created the world? I'm not baiting you here by the way, I'm genuinely interested to know.

I don't doubt that some people are martyred for their faith but you must admit that religion is responsible for countless thousands of deaths.