Atheist and the nativity

Person_one

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear of the death of your aunt by marriage but I have to say that her interpretation that God was punishing her was almost certainly wrong.

Oh the arrogance, she had faith all her life but you know her god better than she did? You have 'his' ear do you?

It doesn't matter that she felt abandoned and confused and lost in her final days, because you in your comfortable health and certainty think she got it wrong. If that's faith you can feel free to stick it wherever you deem least comfortable.

miss_edith

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

i associate belief in god as something for people with lower levels of intelligence than those of non believers.

:rotfl:
On the other hand I associate offensive judgments as something for people with lower levels of intelligence than those who accept others beliefs.

I'm not overly religious - I go to church from time to time but am not convinced by the majority of what I hear but I do believe there is something in it. I'm just not sure what so would call myself agnostic.

I'm always surprised by how arrogant and vehement some atheists can be. I can't imagine wasting time getting worked up about something I don't believe in. :undecided

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

That reminds me of an elderly friend who lost her fiance in WWII when she was 17, never met anyone else because she had a mastectomy at the age of 29, cared for her parents and worked fulltime all her life, attending church with them, being a generally ethical and nice person.

She lost both parents after long, degrading illnesses, got made redundant and not only did the breast cancer return on the other side after years, it was accompanied by advanced ovarian cancer. By the time she died - she had decided that religion was for the easily led. Her words, her decision. She had to endure constant religious Godbombing from people she had thought were her friends until she was so sick of the religion being more important than her, she ended up telling the minister to beggar off and refused all visitors other than one for her last days. And that woman, despite allegedly respecting her friend's views, made a point as she died of singing Abide With Me, as she decided 'the poor dear didn't know what she was saying'. Which was words to the effect of 'don't you dare do that religious nonsense to me like the others did'.

At the funeral service, the minister - the one who had been chucked out of her room with a flea in his ear - told everyone that she, like the woman with the haemorrhage (terribly tasteful when that was what had actually killed her), didn't think herself worthy of God and was, by rejecting everyone, demonstrating her belief that she was only worth of touching the hem of his gown instead.


That seemed pretty conceited to me, and more than a little offensive.

Person_one

miss_edith wrote: »

:rotfl:
I can't imagine wasting time getting worked up about something I don't believe in. :undecided

When the world you live in is massively influenced and even controlled by things you don't believe to exist maybe you'll understand a bit better.

dirtysexymonkey

looby75 wrote: »

I think that has to be one of the most arrogant posts I've ever read.

My Nan was a highly intelligent woman, who also had a very deep faith that comforted her through some of her darkest times, such as when she had a still born baby that was damaged by thalidomide and when my granddad died and left her a widow in her 40's.

She lived her life trying to be the best person she could be, never judging others no matter what their beliefs were. Maybe you should try taking a leaf out of her book rather than looking down your nose at people who think differently than you do.

the evidence is on my side. and you should read posts you attack properly before launching into your crusade.

and actually i think its highly laughable that you of all people are calling anyone arrogant.:rotfl:

dirtysexymonkey

miss_edith wrote: »

:rotfl:
On the other hand I associate offensive judgments as something for people with lower levels of intelligence than those who accept others beliefs.

I'm not overly religious - I go to church from time to time but am not convinced by the majority of what I hear but I do believe there is something in it. I'm just not sure what so would call myself agnostic.

I'm always surprised by how arrogant and vehement some atheists can be. I can't imagine wasting time getting worked up about something I don't believe in. :undecided

so to be clear you find that offensive (despite it being clearly an opinion including the words "rightly or wrongly") and backed up by facts and demonstrable studies? that says much more about the sort of person you are than anyone else.

you may be perfectly happy to let the most disgusting forms of abuse based on religious beliefs go on but i am not, and as long as they go on i will still speak out about them. especially the religions that try and act as if they are above the others - they are not. none of the organised religions are better than any other in that respect.

kafkathecat

Atheist here. To be honest I have been a bit shocked by some of the views expressed above. There are many academics at Oxford and Cambridge who have faith and people here see fit to look down on them as less intelligent and less developed. To me comparing religious faith and intelligence is like comparing apples and oranges. Faith isn't about what people believe rationally it is what they feel spiritually.
Also, an atheist couple that I know had a child who grew up to be very religious so don't be so sure it won't happen to you.

looby75

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

the evidence is on my side. and you should read posts you attack properly before launching into your crusade.

and actually i think its highly laughable that you of all people are calling anyone arrogant.:rotfl:

you believe the evidence is on your side, but just as someone who is religious can't prove there is a god someone who is atheist can't prove there isn't.

Could you please elaborate on the part in bold please, me of all people???

MackemPunk

looby75 wrote: »

you believe the evidence is on your side, but just as someone who is religious can't prove there is a god someone who is atheist can't prove there isn't.

Could you please elaborate on the part in bold please, me of all people???

That's not how it works, if you believe something it's up to you to provide the evidence that it exists.

Image I was to say I believe the universe was created by a giant flying spaghetti monster, I'd get laughed at and asked for proof, but you can't prove it didn't, why the hell should your god get special treatment.

I also find Christians arrogant, the fact they believe that in a universe around 90,000,000,000 light years across that god cares about our little almost invisible existence.

looby75

MackemPunk wrote: »

That's not how it works, if you believe something it's up to you to provide the evidence that it exists.

Image I was to say I believe the universe was created by a giant flying spaghetti monster, I'd get laughed at and asked for proof, but you can't prove it didn't, why the hell should your god get special treatment.

who said it's my God?

At no point have I mentioned if I am religious or not, I was offended at the insinuation that if you have a faith/believe in a god you are some kind of village idiot. I know people who are very religious, but also very intelligent. My daughters old maths teacher for one, He has a PHD in Maths from Oxford, has enough letters after his name to play a whole game of scrabble, is a very interesting man to talk to (and would be the perfect person to have as a member of a pub quiz team, you would win every week lol) but is also believes in God, and doesn't care who knows it. He doesn't shove it down peoples throats but doesn't feel it's anything he has to "hide" either.

I find it very sad that if someone defends the rights or the intelligence of someone to who has faith then everyone assumes that they must be a bible bashing Christian hell bent on converting the whole world.

Maybe some people just think live and let live, I'm happy for people who are religious/not religious to go about their own business and if they try and convert me to their particular way of thinking I am also happy to say "thanks but no thanks" and walk away.