Black Ice? Please Don't Panic!!!!!!

Limey

marlot wrote: »

I'm also part of a rescue group who go out in our 4x4s to help some of the local medics get to the seriously ill.

Cool, I've been considering doing up the Surf so I can join those guys, but I don't think there's much call for it on the south coast.

DTDfanBoy

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

I'll pull you up on 2 things there, 1stly the most important factor is knowing your own limitations.

2ndly the car does not brake for you unless you are fool enough to keep the accelarator planted and the traction control comes in, and then it only brakes the wheel that's actually slipping.

1stly You own limitations will always be restricted but the vehicle you are driving.

2ndly I'm not referring to traction control, I'm referring to vehicle stability control

The systems vary between vehicles, but the more advanced ones will control drive and braking forces to each wheel individually and also actively adjust the suspension. This is something that isn't manually possible in the majority of vehicles, the exception being vehicles which have been heavily modified for specific motor sports.

Essentially it allows the vehicle to use every last ounce of friction from the road surface under each wheel, which obviously offers a huge advantage over vehicles without the system in place.

The biggest problem with this technology is not enough people out there understand what it can achieve.

Get out your car manuals and read them people, this technology could save your life :j

NBLondon

DTDfanBoy wrote: »

The biggest problem with this technology is not enough people out there understand what it can achieve.

Get out your car manuals and read them people, this technology could save your life :j

Yeah - great stuff but anybody got a realistic idea of what percentage of cars on the road actually have this level of technology? As I said above; I've tried it on £40K worth of Jag and it was great. I was pretty impressed by LandRover Freelander2 as well. But I can't afford either of these... Ford advertise lots of stuff on the MK3 Focus but only on the top spec £20K plus versions - which I don't have. What about the MSE's who drive older and better value cars?

To be honest, I'd rather people used caution and judgement and didn't test the full capability of the technology then relied on the technology to save them every time...

ariba10

Freefall wrote: »

So if you want to keep your NCD and your premiums down it seems like you would have to increase your gap AND decrease your speed. 1/4 of a mile is just absurd though... as you point out.

And there will be any given number of Broom- Broom merchants who will jump into the gap.

DTDfanBoy

NBLondon wrote: »

Yeah - great stuff but anybody got a realistic idea of what percentage of cars on the road actually have this level of technology? As I said above; I've tried it on £40K worth of Jag and it was great. I was pretty impressed by LandRover Freelander2 as well. But I can't afford either of these... Ford advertise lots of stuff on the MK3 Focus but only on the top spec £20K plus versions - which I don't have. What about the MSE's who drive older and better value cars?

To be honest, I'd rather people used caution and judgement and didn't test the full capability of the technology then relied on the technology to save them every time...

It's becoming far more readily available, my wifes old corolla had it fitted as standard , and her new/secondhand Auris has an even more effective version. I'd imagine you could purchase a secondhand car with it fitted and still have change from £4,000, so it's certainly no longer out of reach for the majority out there.

It really is excellent technology, the first car I had it on was in 2002 on a LWB XJR, which I used to love driving with traction control off in the wet great fun on New Zealands roads, but the stability system on that saved my !!!! more than once.

It seems that it's being widely implemented now across the world because of the difference it makes.

You can find some basic info on implementation in the EU here http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/esave/esafety_measures_known_safety_effects/electronic_stability_control.htm

Looks like it's becoming standard on trucks and buses as well, excellent

Strider590

^^ Until people realise that it's different to traction control, it won't take off in mass produced mid/low range cars.

I remember when ABS first started to appear in mainstream cars, the car adverts on TV showing cars avoiding object and braking at the same time, it wasn't entirely truthful or representative of the technology, it was simply dumbed down for the mass audience to understand. But at least you could sell it.........
Later it became standard fit, with cars of that era proudly displaying the ABS badge on the boot.

How would you sell ESP? How can you make Jo Average understand what it does? How can you make Jo Average see any benefit it having it? Most people think ABS and traction control do the same thing, you couldn't even advertise ESP, because the adverts would look exactly the same as for ABS and TC, and people would just think it was a worthless gimmick... Manufacturers could be forced to fit it to their cars, but people (the general idiotic population) would be angry at paying more for a car that had this "worthless" additional feature.

But don't get me started on this countries ever increasing population of "educated" stupid people.

Trebor16

Freefall wrote: »

So if you want to keep your NCD and your premiums down it seems like you would have to increase your gap AND decrease your speed. 1/4 of a mile is just absurd though... as you point out.

It's only absurd if you insist on driving at 40mph in snow and ice. If you drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions then the distance between you and the vehicle in front will be less. If you follow the advice in the Highway Code about not making your journey if it is not essential then it will be even safer.

Strider590

Trebor16 wrote: »

It's only absurd if you insist on driving at 40mph in snow and ice. If you drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions then the distance between you and the vehicle in front will be less. If you follow the advice in the Highway Code about not making your journey if it is not essential then it will be even safer.

But again, we're talking about black ice on an otherwise clear road.
There was again a few small patches of black ice this morning on two roads I have to use, if i'd called my employer and said "I can't come in due to a few patches of black ice", they'd look out of the window, see the clear dry carpark, laugh and then promptly fire my a**.

mikey72

Strider590 wrote: »

But again, we're talking about black ice on an otherwise clear road.
There was again a few small patches of black ice this morning on two roads I have to use, if i'd called my employer and said "I can't come in due to a few patches of black ice", they'd look out of the window, see the clear dry carpark, laugh and then promptly fire my a**.

So why are you banging on about needing 1/4 of a mile to stop.
If the road is otherwise clear, apart from a few small patches, don't drive so far up his a*se that you are on the black ice at the same time.
As I said, leave a reasonable gap, when you see him slide on the small patch of black ice, you brake before you get there too.
If you insist on driving at your normal speed, as close as you normally are to people, you're going to hit them.

AlexisV

Friend of mine skidded off the road on black ice whilst going 70 and hit a signpost. No injuries whatsoever - I was astonished. He was in a Lexus IS200, which was unsurprisingly written off.