Refunding onto same payment card

Meepster

texranger is spot on.

All companies *SHOULD* refund onto the original card only. Or, in the case of the card having expired or been stolen/damaged, it can then be refunded onto the replacement card. Refunding onto a different card or with cash is a breach of the terms and conditions set out by the card merchant. Gift cards or head office cheques are the other two ways in which they can safely refund, as both of these can be traced.

As already said, it is to combat fraud. Whilst it is true that the odd refunded here and there isn't going to be crime of the century, some thiefs (or gangs of thieves) will use a multitide of stolen cards to purchase goods and then try to get them refunded onto a different card. When I was a retail manager, we helped catch a serial thief who had used stolen cards to buy nearly £30k worth of goods in a six month period, from different retailers, which had then been refunded to their own account.

Also, it protects the retailer from a cutomer asking to have it refunded to a different card and then returning a few days ater, armed with their bank-statement, showing that they have not been refunded to the original card. It gets very messy then, as it's usually the member of staff who processed the refund, who is accused of refunding the transaction to their own/a friends card...

aldredd

Thanks Meepster - and everyone else who has been involved. Been an interesting discussion. Little surprised by the outcome, but the reasons do make sense, and hey - I came here to learn, and I've learnt a great deal - thanks.

I guess where you'll really get stuck is if you have closed an account / had it closed - lets hope it never happens!

texranger

as a retailer i recently had a case where a customer come to have an item refunded and saying their card expired and they only have a replacement card, so when i phoned my MSP for approval i was told not to refund as this card was flagged as being used for over 50 such refunds in 3 days. when i told the customer this, they picked up the item and ran out of the shop

texranger

aldredd wrote: »

I guess where you'll really get stuck is if you have closed an account / had it closed - lets hope it never happens!

if this was the case you would just get a credit note/gift card

Optimist

bris wrote: »

As a retailer I can assure you if you don't have the original card then it is a credit note, the law allows this and you will lose it you took it to court, no if's but's or maybe. Trading standards will also tell you this so ask them.

I would agree with a credit card as it is a credit agreement and the retailer would be within their rights to refund to the original card as it was the card company that effectively paid.

However a a debit card is a different matter. It is effectively cash, the amount going in electronic form direct from the customers bank to the retailers.

I can see all the practical reasons why it would be the preferred option for the retailer, fraud, not finding a unexpected charge back etc etc

That said, I see no legal obligation on the customer to accept a credit note when they had paid by debit card and I would dispute your contention that the customer would loose such a action in court.

Meepster

Optimist wrote: »

I would agree with a credit card as it is a credit agreement and the retailer would be within their rights to refund to the original card as it was the card company that effectively paid.

However a a debit card is a different matter. It is effectively cash, the amount going in electronic form direct from the customers bank to the retailers.

I can see all the practical reasons why it would be the preferred option for the retailer, fraud, not finding a unexpected charge back etc etc

That said, I see no legal obligation on the customer to accept a credit note when they had paid by debit card and I would dispute your contention that the customer would loose such a action in court.

Actually, the retailer is (strictly, possibly too strictly, depending on how you look at it) adhering to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, which over-rides the customers right to be refunded in whatever way they see fit.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/29/contents

(I thought this all sounded familiar, I've posted about this before):

Section 328 Arrangements

(1) A person commits an offence if he enters into or becomes
concerned in an arrangement which he knows or suspects facilitates
(by whatever means) the acquisition, retention, use or control of
criminal property by or on behalf of another person.

I think the best way to look at it is:

If a retailer OFFERS and then gives a cash refund for a card purchase, they have no reason to suspect that it could be fraudulent and is therefore ok

If a retailer is ASKED for a cash refund for a card purchase, they then could suspect that the goods had been obtained fraudulently and therefore break the law if they give a cash refund...

Hope that makes sense?

Optimist

Meepster wrote: »

Actually, the retailer is (strictly, possibly too strictly, depending on how you look at it) adhering to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, which over-rides the customers right to be refunded in whatever way they see fit.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/29/contents

(I thought this all sounded familiar, I've posted about this before):

Section 328 Arrangements

(1) A person commits an offence if he enters into or becomes
concerned in an arrangement which he knows or suspects facilitates
(by whatever means) the acquisition, retention, use or control of
criminal property by or on behalf of another person.

I think the best way to look at it is:

If a retailer OFFERS and then gives a cash refund for a card purchase, they have no reason to suspect that it could be fraudulent and is therefore ok

If a retailer is ASKED for a cash refund for a cash purchase, they then could suspect that the goods had been obtained fraudulently and therefore break the law if they give a cash refund...

Hope that makes sense?

Even "too strictly" is a understatement there.

If the retailer suspects such a thing he/she would need to call the police not give a credit note.

Meepster

Optimist wrote: »

Even "too strictly" is a understatement there.

If the retailer suspects such a thing he/she would need to call the police not give a credit note.

Not really, all depends on how much we're talking about. I'd never have called the police if it was £10 or £20 worth of goods. I'd have insisted on a head office cheque, which I know I am perfectly within my rights to do.

That way, if they want to get the money, they have to give me their name and address. If they give me false details, they don't get anything.

If REALLY suspicious, that information would then be passed onto the police...

Optimist

Meepster wrote: »

Not really, all depends on how much we're talking about. I'd never have called the police if it was £10 or £20 worth of goods. I'd have insisted on a head office cheque, which I know I am perfectly within my rights to do.

That way, if they want to get the money, they have to give me their name and address. If they give me false details, they don't get anything.

If REALLY suspicious, that information would then be passed onto the police...

I am only talking about where the customer is entitled to a refund under of the relevant piece of consumer legislation.

Obviously if the retailer has agreed out the the kindness of his/her heart to refund with no obligations to do so, then it can be a credit note

Meepster

Optimist wrote: »

I am only talking about where the customer is entitled to a refund under of the relevant piece of consumer legislation.

Obviously if the retailer has agreed out the the kindness of his/her heart to refund with no obligations to do so, then it can be a credit note

Ok, then no, strictly speaking they aren't entitled to get a refund onto another card or cash. If the original card isn't present, the retailer can decide the method of the refund