FTSE100 doing well... considering double dip on way?

Emy1501

leveller2911 wrote: »

In answer to your first point Private sector pensions have been dramaitcally slashed over the years. Gordon Brown stole £6,000,000,000 from the Private pension sector. Annuity rates have plummeted by 46% in 16 years so they have been cut , dramatically cut.


Second point is there are very few final salary pensions left and soon there will be none.

I have a final salary pension in the private sector. I have no doubt in disappear soon our race to the bottom it will disappear soon.

Maybe we should allow the private sector run schools. Of course cost per head at my wife school is 15k per head at the private school which takes the overflow 35k per head all funded by the tax payer but it private so I'm sure it's valuable use of tax payers money

the_cat

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether the teachers or any other public sector worker do or don't 'deserve' a certain level of pension. There isn't the money in the pot without cutting essential services. What should be cut which is fair to all to give the few more than the average? NHS? Education? Provision for elderly/disabled? Police?

We can't give what we as a country don't have.

leveller2911

Emy1501 wrote: »

I have a final salary pension in the private sector. I have no doubt in disappear soon our race to the bottom it will disappear soon.

Maybe we should allow the private sector run schools. Of course cost per head at my wife school is 15k per head at the private school which takes the overflow 35k per head all funded by the tax payer but it private so I'm sure it's valuable use of tax payers money

It shouldn't be a race o the bottom, everyone should have a decent state pension.

When we had the marches in London last week I noticed some of the unions had banners with "decent pensions for everyone" its a bit strange how the public sector protestors are saying this now as they stood by and did nothing when Gordon pilidged the Pivate sector pension funds.

We didn't see any Public sector strikes or protests when he did that but they seem to want the Private sector to support their pensions.. There wasn't much standing side by side then.

jem16

howee wrote: »

Indeed, add we are working longer (we were promised 65), we accept the facts PS workers especially teachers can't seem to accept this. Maybe a more noisy union?

Teachers can and do accept this. It doesn't mean to say we can't try and stop the race to the bottom - let's slow it down a bit. Leave the increase in contributions until after the end of the 2yr wage freeze and I think most teachers would agree with it - at least the ones I have talked to.

Anyway to finish off let me inject a bit of humour (hopefully) into the situation. Figures are American but I'm sure you'll get the idea.

Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.



That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM

with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).



Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.



Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.



LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).



What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children

X 180 days = $280,800 per year.



Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!



The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)



WHAT A DEAL!!!!

This came about after a lot of parents recently berated teachers for striking as they had no-one else to llok after their children for that day.

StevieJ

Batchy wrote: »

I personally think final salary schemes are a joke... and its whats destroying our companies, when things are bad they are VERY bad!

Why? haven't you got one

Emy1501

leveller2911 wrote: »

It shouldn't be a race o the bottom, everyone should have a decent state pension.

When we had the marches in London last week I noticed some of the unions had banners with "decent pensions for everyone" its a bit strange how the public sector protestors are saying this now as they stood by and did nothing when Gordon pilidged the Pivate sector pension funds.

We didn't see any Public sector strikes or protests when he did that but they seem to want the Private sector to support their pensions.. There wasn't much standing side by side then.

I doubt there where be state pension by time I retire and that's why the type of pension on offer has been important to me. The problem is though that many I know could not get what pension and many at work don't even know what a final salary is. A couple were complaining about the gold plated state pension even though they have better one:rotfl:

My question would be did the private sector strike when their pensions were cut? Most people I know would rather get paid 35k with no pension than 32k with a final salary one as most just have no interest in their pension.

Emy1501

the_cat wrote: »

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether the teachers or any other public sector worker do or don't 'deserve' a certain level of pension. There isn't the money in the pot without cutting essential services. What should be cut which is fair to all to give the few more than the average? NHS? Education? Provision for elderly/disabled? Police?

We can't give what we as a country don't have.

Budget at my wifes school was cut by 30% last year and she's being asked to take a real term cut in pay over 4 years plus pay 3% more into a pension. This is at a time when average private sector rises are 2-3%. Recent research by experian suggested that elmbridge was the area to live for those who were least affected by the cuts. Funny that those who can afford to handle cuts best are the least affected. Suggests to me we are all not in this together

the_cat

Emy1501 wrote: »

My question would be did the private sector strike when their pensions were cut? Most people I know would rather get paid 35k with no pension than 32k with a final salary one as most just have no interest in their pension.

My OH was required to sign a new contract to agree to the new t and c's. Failure to do so would have been considered as making himself voluntarily redundant. Unethical? Perhaps but apparently within the letter of the law. There is no union. There are no other jobs. The idea of a few people in a private company striking is laughable

His choices? Put up with it or leave. You have no idea how lucky you are to even be able to contemplate a strike

kabayiri

leveller2911 wrote: »

It shouldn't be a race o the bottom, everyone should have a decent state pension.
...

We could guarantee a basic state pension of £150 a week for all tomorrow.

We could return NI to a ring fenced fund which showed the exact cost of pension funding to anyone who looked at their pay packet deductions (tax relief + public sector funds) .

Guess what - people would scowl, and cry uproar at the amounts.

The harsh truth is no one wants to pay for our elderly. It's always someone else's problem. People bicker about those who contribute too little or retire early.

Move forward 20 years or so where you are a comfortable pensioner, but for everyone of you there are 2 of your age peers in a state of real poverty. Will you feel happy still ?

The talk amongst my pensioner father and others is about the planned removal of the subsidised bus pass come 2012. We can't even provide them mobility any more.

Race to the bottom sounds about right.

vivatifosi

Emy1501 wrote: »

My question would be did the private sector strike when their pensions were cut? Most people I know would rather get paid 35k with no pension than 32k with a final salary one as most just have no interest in their pension.

You have to bear in mind that a lot of schemes didn't close, they closed to new members. Therefore people who already worked there would not have been affected. New people joining may not have known there was previously a defined benefit scheme. DB schemes started closing to new members probably mid 1990s. Schemes closing altogether came a bit later, can't remember exact timing but probably after Gordon Brown did the raid on pensions. So it has been a withdrawal over several years, as opposed to taking on the whole of the public sector (excluding the MPs own excellent scheme of course) in one go.