FTSE100 doing well... considering double dip on way?

leveller2911

browniej wrote: »

Nope - fed up with people who have actually no idea what teaching entails continually criticising teachers.

I'm not criticising teachers for teaching ,I had some fantastic teachers at school.

I'm critising them for whinging constantly about a pension scheme which after changes will still be better than those in the Private sector. Those teachers (on this thread if you bother to read it fron the start along with other threads) who say they can't be expected to work until the age of 67 when the rest of society will be faced with retiring at 67 and many will never be in a position to retire.

Teachers are also classed as "Key workers" and as such have preferential treatment over housing. My SIL is a head teacher and I also have a good freind who is a teacher and out of 13 weeks of school holiday they have at least 10 weeks off work putting their feet up.


Teachers deserve respect but they don't deserve all the extras that Society can no longer afford and in some cases should never have been given in the first place "Key worker" status for example and a subsidised pension scheme.Just for your information Pension annuity rates have plummeted 46% in the last 16 yrs have Public sector pensions dropped by anything like this amount or have they risen? We all know the answer .........

browniej

leveller2911 wrote: »

I'm critising them for whinging constantly about a pension scheme which after changes will still be better than those in the Private sector. Those teachers (on this thread if you bother to read it fron the start along with other threads) who say they can't be expected to work until the age of 67 when the rest of society will be faced with retiring at 67 and many will never be in a position to retire.

Did you read these figures from this post?

jem16 wrote: »

How about some realistic comparisons please?

Professional worker to compare with the professional teacher - ie graduates after 4 years study.

I have 2 sons currently in the private sector, both graduates. Both on approx £30k, one after working for 2 years and the other for 4 years. They have 37 days holiday this year - that's 37/5 as they work 5 days a week so 7 weeks plus 2 days. This taking account of the public holidays.

So £30k divided by 45 multiplied by 48 would give £32k according to your very imaginative "full-time" equivalent.

A teacher after 2 years working in Scotland would be on £23,841 so that's £30,114.

Seems the private sector graduate is ahead so far.

Pension for my sons sees a total of 17% contributed. So with employee tax relief at 20% gives £456.25pm contribution. After 40 years at 5% growth this would give a pot of £679,158. Using an annuity claculator based on retiral of age 60 with a spouse pension and RPI index linking this would give a pension of £19,926. Now of course this totally ignores future wage increases over those 40 years, probable 40% tax relief instead of 20% and uses RPI whereas teachers will now be on CPI. If using index linking of 3% ( closer to CPI) we have a pension of £23,784.

A teacher with a final salary of £35k would see a pension of £23,333 under current final salary conditions.

So the teacher with the "gold plated" pension is actually £461 less.

Doesn't seem to point to a comparable position in the private sector being any worse than the teacher. What do you think?

Teachers are also classed as "Key workers" and as such have preferential treatment over housing.

This seems to be only available in England. Is that correct? I wonder why the rest of the UK didn't follow suit?

My SIL is a head teacher and I also have a good freind who is a teacher and out of 13 weeks of school holiday they have at least 10 weeks off work putting their feet up.

Two doesn't make a majority I hope.

leveller2911

browniej wrote: »

Did you read these figures from this post?



Doesn't seem to point to a comparable position in the private sector being any worse than the teacher. What do you think?

To be honest I would rather take official figures/statistsics over Jems personal opinion/circumstances. I'm not knocking Jems post but its one persons opinion/experience.

Official statistics show Public sector pensions are susidised massively by taxpayers even the Unions admit that. They just don't want to see the pensions cut. Pensions in the private sector receive tax relief as does the public sector pensions .


"A public sector worker earning £40k a year on a 6% contributory scheme doing their 40 years would get £20k a year pension income. A cost of around £200pm. A private sector worker using a personal pension on same basis would need to pay around £403 a month to get the same income and still would be taking investment risk. To get it closer to guaranteed, the contribution would need to be £818pm. Four times more than a public sector worker".

The above was posted on the "Public strike " thread by Dunstonh who is a Pension Financial advisor if you PM him I'm sure he would happily post proof of his figures..

browniej

leveller2911 wrote: »

Official statistics show Public sector pensions are susidised massively by taxpayers even the Unions admit that.

I don't think anyone has denied that.

They just don't want to see the pensions cut. Pensions in the private sector receive tax relief as does the public sector pensions .

Would the private sector want their pension cut?

"A public sector worker earning £40k a year on a 6% contributory scheme doing their 40 years would get £20k a year pension income. A cost of around £200pm. A private sector worker using a personal pension on same basis would need to pay around £403 a month to get the same income and still would be taking investment risk. To get it closer to guaranteed, the contribution would need to be £818pm. Four times more than a public sector worker".

Most professional private sector workers ( ie comparable to a teacher) are also receiving an employer's contribution so it would be far larger than 6% that is actually going in. I have seen a few posts on the pension forum where they have said that their employer pays double what they pay. That would turn a 6% contribution into an 18% contribution.

The above was posted on the "Public strike " thread by Dunstonh who is a Pension Financial advisor if you PM him I'm sure he would happily post proof of his figures..

Dunstonh is perfectly correct in what he is saying with regards to a 6% contribution.

The point is that a comparable professional is not paying in just 6%. There are also quite a few comparable professionals still on a final salary pension.

Blacklight

browniej wrote: »

Nope - fed up with people who have actually no idea what teaching entails continually criticising teachers.

Ergo they are so special that they have an entitlement to everyone else's money, some of whom undoubtedly work much harder and don't get 12 weeks holiday a year?

I think you'll find sympathy a little thin on the ground.

Jimmy_31

jem16 wrote: »

I wondered that but then he said he did get bank holidays off but yet to be paid for them. That didn't sound like self-employed.

Sole trader sub contractor via the CIS scheme in the construction industry.

No contracts, no holiday pay , no sick pay, no notice pay and most of the time no actual notice given.

I could argue to the firms i work for that i am actually an employee but i would instantly be laid off for opening my mouth.

browniej

Blacklight wrote: »

Ergo they are so special that they have an entitlement to everyone else's money,

I shall remember to ask for a discount next time I buy a loaf, pay for my energy, fuel, insurance etc as I don't want to pay for their pensions.

Blacklight

browniej wrote: »

I shall remember to ask for a discount next time I buy a loaf, pay for my energy, fuel, insurance etc as I don't want to pay for their pensions.

Your sense of entitlement is as astonishing as bankers waving 50's out of the window at protesters or 40k a year scum mums. You're not selling it to me.

leveller2911

browniej wrote: »

I don't think anyone has denied that.

Would the private sector want their pension cut?



The point is that a comparable professional is not paying in just 6%. There are also quite a few comparable professionals still on a final salary pension.

In answer to your first point Private sector pensions have been dramaitcally slashed over the years. Gordon Brown stole £6,000,000,000 from the Private pension sector. Annuity rates have plummeted by 46% in 16 years so they have been cut , dramatically cut.


Second point is there are very few final salary pensions left and soon there will be none.

sheffield_lad

leveller2911 wrote: »

In answer to your first point Private sector pensions have been dramaitcally slashed over the years. Gordon Brown stole £6,000,000,000 from the Private pension sector. Annuity rates have plummeted by 46% in 16 years so they have been cut , dramatically cut.


Second point is there are very few final salary pensions left and soon there will be none.

Indeed, add we are working longer (we were promised 65), we accept the facts PS workers especially teachers can't seem to accept this. Maybe a more noisy union?