FTSE100 doing well... considering double dip on way?

jem16

Blacklight wrote: »

You can't extrapolate anything from that just as you can't simply say that 37 days holiday is the norm to prove a point.

I have compared a private sector worker with similar qualifications to a teacher.

The 37 days is 37 days including 10 days public holiday which leaves 27 days. Hardly extreme I wouldn't think.

jem16

chucknorris wrote: »

But there are only 8 public holidays (excluding royal weddings of course) 37-8 = 29. In the private sector you don't usually get Xmas eve and New years eve (at least I din't).

In Scotland the 2nd January is also a holiday plus next year's Golden Jubilee. So for next year he has 10 days publci holiday.

chucknorris

jem16 wrote: »

In Scotland the 2nd January is also a holiday plus next year's Golden Jubilee. So for next year he has 10 days publci holiday.

But the golden jubilee is only a one off and you can't apply Scotland to England and Wales. Don't get me wrong good luck to your sons, but it isn't the norm.

But getting back to the comparative point, I don't want to win the prize for having the least holidays, I would rather come last in that competition. It seems to me that there are misunderstandings on both sides:

The private sector doesn't appreciate that the summer break is not all holiday and the public sector doesn't appreciate how little holiday private sector workers get, which is severely compounded by working weekends (where appropriate).

Emy1501

leveller2911 wrote: »

I was running my own business which has been going successfully for nearly 25 yrs and contributing to teachers pensions.

I would ask you a straight forward question: Can you in all honesty,hand on heart not feel uneasy with the fact that the Public (many of whom earn 50% of a teachers wage)are paying massively into the Public sector pension schemes when at the same time not being able to provide for their own retirement provision?..

Does it not make you feel the slightest bit uneasy?

Just to add we can't all be teachers otherwise who would be left to pay for our pensions?

I see pay as a package. Average pay for a teacher in the SE is probably about 30k average house price about 250k. I therefore do not see how teachers are well paid when you take into account qualification needed etc. From what I've read public sector pensions are about 7-10% better than in the private sector so about 3k a year. So as a package pay and pension is nothing special and as I say if it was people would having queuing up to teach rather than the government paying incentives to get people into teaching in the boom years

Nothing wrong with pension reform but asking them to take a 2% pay rise over a 4 year period plus increase pension payment by 3-4% at a time when average pay rises in private sector are 2-3% is something I don't agree with especially as many of the people are happy to do a job that many were not interested to do in the boom years and I will be not interested in doing once the economy.

chucknorris

leveller2911 wrote: »

I would ask you a straight forward question: Can you in all honesty,hand on heart not feel uneasy with the fact that the Public (many of whom earn 50% of a teachers wage)are paying massively into the Public sector pension schemes when at the same time not being able to provide for their own retirement provision?..

Does it not make you feel the slightest bit uneasy?

Doesn't make me feel uneasy at all, it's ONE of the reasons that I joined the public sector last year. In fact I'm very pleased with it, even after the recent reform.

jem16

chucknorris wrote: »

But the golden jubilee is only a one off and you can't apply Scotland to England and Wales.

Ok let's take the Jubilee holday away then so he's entitled to 27 days plus 9 days public holiday. If he was in the London branch he would only get 26 days plus the public holidays.

By the way the maximum salary for a class teacher in Scotland is £34,200 which is less than the max quoted for England.

Don't get me wrong good luck to your sons, but it isn't the norm.

It's the norm for a similar professional in the private sector.

However the number of holidays wasn't my point as you'll see I have only used the holidays to work out this rather strange "full-time" equivalent.

I had already said that the holidays were a perk of teaching.

But getting back to the comparative point, I don't want to win the prize for having the least holidays, I would rather come last in that competition. It seems to me that there are misunderstandings on both sides:

The private sector doesn't appreciate that the summer break is not all holiday and the public sector doesn't appreciate how little holiday private sector workers get, which is severely compounded by working weekends (where appropriate).

I would say that the working weekends and unpaid overtime are true of any professional job, be it private or public sector.

I do agree on the lack of understanding all round but it is not helped by the continual comparisons of a professional public sector worker vs an unpfofessional private sector worker along with highly exaggerated figures of that professional public sector worker.

leveller2911

chucknorris wrote: »

Doesn't make me feel uneasy at all, it's ONE of the reasons that I joined the public sector last year. In fact I'm very pleased with it, even after the recent reform.

Well all I will say to that is it speaks volumes of how teachers see themselves as being "special".

Hopefully once all of the changes are put in place you will see that you are not "special" but equelly valued as others but not above them.

chucknorris

jem16 wrote: »

I would say that the working weekends and unpaid overtime are true of any professional job, be it private or public sector.

.

I'm not talking about a few hours or days here and there, I'm talking about most weekends. Most, if not all of the quantity surveying practices that I worked for would have never considered a taking on a QS with a public sector background. Although I must add that I was one of the more dedicated, I held the record working the longest continuous hours in our office (from 8am Thursday until 6pm Friday).

In private practice you tend to get paid what you negotiate as an individual and receive a bonus based on how you performed during the year. I don't think that's the case in the public sector I think it's based on salary scales. A friend who I graduated with earned approx. 20% less than me in the public sector, but his compensation was better pension, more holidays, flexi time and a far less stressful working day.

Jimmy_31

leveller2911 wrote: »

Prudent wrote: »

For many teachers the key issue is the retirement age change not the increase in contributions. I am a special needs teacher. My job is very physical because of moving and handling issues as well as being emotionally and mentally draining. I love my job, but couldn't do it at 67 without being a risk to the children.

QUOTE]


Why do teachers believe they have an occupation which is more physically and emotionally damaging than many other occupations?.

Try being a self employed builder humping heavy weights all year round come rain or shine and at the end of it not being paid by the client.I know so many tradesmen riddle wih Arthritis barely able to hold a mug of tea after working their nuts off for 50 years who couldn't afford to have a private pension let alone pay towards public sector pensions .

No offence but teachers need to toughen up a bit .. My income hasn't gone up in 5 years but my outgoings have ...

No one is forced into any occupation and we are all free to make a career change at any time.

Well said.

If the arthritis doesnt get you then its usually some work related disease or accident that kills you off.

Lads die on site all the time and it never even makes the news, well unless their is a crane involved in killing one of us then sometimes it gets a mention. The fella falling off a ladder he didnt want to go up just gets ignored.

Health and safety is going out the window rapidly on the sites im working on, im currently working between 3 sites and one of them is my favourite because its got toilets, no drying room or canteen but at least i dont have to go for a wildy everyday:rotfl:.

Currently doing a lot of unpaid overtime as well, or sitting on the motorways for 3 to 4 hours a day as i call it.

Im roofing after christmas so im predicting massive snowfalls first day back in work, thats if ive got a job to go back to as lots of firms have gone bump around here after paying out holiday pay to the cards in lads.

I think i will stop working the sites once i get my first house, hopefully i will have no mortgage so i should be able to get by on a bit of private work, well i say private work but i think i will just do foreigners;)

Jimmy_31

Somebody mentioned not wanting the prize for having the least amount of holidays, i think i am in with a chance of first prize because i get a grand total of zero holidays.

I sometimes get bank holidays off though but have yet to recieve any holiday pay for them.