Please ensure your electrics are up to date!!!!!!!!!

dwarvenassassin

[B]What is a House in Multiple Occupation?[/B]
 
Your home may be a House in Multiple Occupation (an HMO) if:
[LIST=1]
[*]at least three people live there; and
[*]the people who live there belong to three or more families (If the owner lives there, they and their family are not counted); and
[*]you share a kitchen, bathroom or toilet.[/LIST]The most common types of HMO are shared flats and houses, but they also include:
[LIST]
[*]Hostels, for homeless people or temporary workers
[*]Staff accommodation in hotels, hospitals, etc.
[*]Bedsits
[*]Student halls of residence
[*]Some types of supported accommodation.[/LIST]

In these circumstances, I do stay within the 5 year period and often specify a much lower period (usually 1 year)
However, the majority of homes are NOT HMO's and therefore I assume it does not apply to the majority of readers here.

red40

It was nothing to do with the majority of the readers, as I previously said it was information for you and other electricians who are unaware of the new legislation!

dwarvenassassin

Granted Red.


While we are on the subject of Period Inspections, something came to mind that I missed out of my original post.

There are 3 types of Electrical Safety Certificate - do not get them mixed up!

New work and/or alterations require an Installation Certificate or a Minor Works Certificate.
Work that can be classified as Minor Works can be covered by a full Installation Certificate but this is not necessary and therefore rarely done. The reverse however is NOT permissable.
A Periodic Inspection Certificate only covers the condition of the existing installation and is subject to limitations. These can NOT be used to cover new work/alterations.


From the Minor Works Certificate :

Scope

The Minor Works Certificate is intended to be used for additions and alterations to an installation that do not extend to the provision of a new circuit. Examples include the addition of socket-outlets or lighting points to an existing circuit, the relocation of a light switch etc. This Certificate may also be used for the replacement of equipment such as accessories or luminaires, but not for the replacement of distribution boards or similar items. Appropriate inspection and testing, however, should always be carried out irrespective of the extent of the work undertaken.


From The Installation Certificate :


The Electrical Installation Certificate is to be used only for the initial certification of a new installation or for an addition or alteration to an existing installation where new circuits have been introduced.
It is not to be used for a Periodic Inspection for which a Periodic Inspection Report form should be used. For an addition or alteration which does not extend to the introduction of new circuits, a Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate may be used.


From the Periodic Inspection Certificate :

This Periodic Inspection Report form shall only be used for the reporting on the condition of an existing installation.


With this in mind, I have some advice for consumers regarding certification.
You may have a builder or electrician who says something like 'I will do your electrics and then my mate will come and do a certificate when we have finished'.
This is only a valid course of action when the 'mate' is employed by the same electrical firm as the person carrying out the work for the purposes of Inspection and Testing, and even then the person doing the inspection should turn up before the work is plastered/concealed to verify the installation methods and cable routing.
If an electrician not employed by the same firm issues the certificate and all he does is turn up at the end of the job and do some tests then the best he can do (and the only legal thing) is issue a Period Inspection Report, which is NOT valid for new work/alterations/additions.
Electricians/Inspectors employed by the same firm CAN work this way but in such cases the certificate should have different signatures for the different areas of work (Installation and Inspection).
If your builder does the wiring/electrical installation and then a firm of eletricians turn up at the end of the job 'to do the certificate' then alarm bells should start ringing.

dwarvenassassin

Another Point of interest....

I get continually wound up by Painters/Decorators because of this)

Earth cables and Bonding conductors MUST be Green & Yellow in colour.
DO NOT PAINT THEM!

Also, all earth/bonding connections (water pipes, gas pipes, radiators etc.) as well as the Main Earth Terminal at the supply terminals should have a notice attached (usually a thin metal plate) which MUST read SAFETY ELECTRICAL CONNECTION - Do Not Remove

bodie_2

hi these trip switches aren't rcd's simply over current devices like the old fuses, just more sensitive (unless you are talking about an rcbo) do get an electrician to properly "inspect and test" your home, he will supply you with a periodic inspection and test cert which will list any defects and required corrective action. and yes there are other recognised bodies other than the niceic such as nappit and elecsa

Ian (elecsa part p approved electrical contractor)

inspect

dwarvenassassin wrote: »

14 - While we are on the subject of CU changes, trhe 17th Edition of BS7671 requires pretty much ALL domestic wiring to be RCD protected (even lighting) and the new consumer units to accomodate this are pretty expensive at the moment. Here is a money saving tip! Some unscrupulous firms will tell you that they HAVE to fit these new and expensive boards because the new regs are out. They do not become compulsary until June - until then £50 worth of normal split load board is fine!!

Hi

A lot of good information.:beer: Only one thing I’d pick you up on is your money saving tip. I’m afraid I don’t agree. I see the 17th edition as an improvement on the existing 16th regulations. RCD’s on every circuit, from a safety point this should have happened a long time ago. Will you save money by installing to the 16th? In the short term yes but in the long term probably not.

I would not advise you change a consumer unit just because the regs have changed but if you are having a rewire, new consumer unit or a new circuit installed it would make sense to comply with regulations that are due to come into force in just a couple of months. Why? Because after July of this year any electrical alterations will have to comply with the 17th. This could mean that you’ll have to spend additional money to bring you recent work up to current standards.

A good example is the changing of a consumer unit. If an electrician installs to the 16th they will usually install a split board. This is a fuse board split in two, one half protected by the RCD. Currently only sockets that can supply equipment outside require RCD protection. The 17th insists that all circuits are covered by an RCD (there are exceptions). This means that you could have a fuse board with several circuits without RCD protection. Now if at any time after July you have work carried out on any of these circuits you will have to install RCD protection. Now providing the fuse board will accommodate RCBO’s (like RCD’s) they will cost approx £35.00 each per circuit. :eek: That’s if the existing board can be reconfigured if not it’s a new fuse board.:eek:

An example of 17th edition boards can be found here.

Another good reason to install to the 17th is that you do not need additional bonding in the bathroom. Saves having the earth wire trailing around pipe work and showing on the nice fancy towel radiator.


:beer:

dwarvenassassin

all valid points I agree with

except....

I have never seen a 16th edition compliant split-load board currently available that will not accept rcbo's .... if you know of one, please link to it.

New work after the the 17th becomes compulsary WILL require RCD protection, but ONLY the new work Other circuits not involved in the work will not be required to be brought up to spec.
The circuit that has been worked on will only need an RCBO fitted and the price is falling - they can be purchased for under £20 now.

and finally, the 17th does not preclude the need for supplementary bonding in bathrooms et al, it just reduces the likelyhood.

inspect

Hi

I don’t want to get technical (it’s not an electricians forum) but another reason you may need to change a board is to comply with the segregation of circuits. Also had a Crabtree load star the other day the 6amp RCBO wouldn’t fit at is was twice the size of a normal mcb, there was no space left on the board. :mad: The likelihood is that a typical installation installed to the 17th will not require supplementary bonding. And yes RCBO’s will get cheaper, sooner rather than later I hope.:rotfl:

Another reason why I install to the 17th now is that I don’t want a call from the customer in six months time asking why their installation does not comply. It’s down to personal preference neither is wrong. :beer:

gromituk

dwarvenassassin wrote: »

If a joiner gets it wrong, your doors/windows don't fit.
If a plumber gets itwrong, you get wet.
If your wiring is wrong, IT CAN KILL!!

I do find this constant stating of the obvious from those with a vested interest (i.e. electricians) does get a little bit tiresome. If a plumber gets it wrong it can also kill you - plumbers do gas appliances too (not to mention water leaking into your electricity meter etc) - yet you conveniently forgot to mention that. If people are frightened into spending all their spare cash on endless electrical inspections they might miss out on a boiler inspection. There has to be some balance.

7 - Prices for electrical work vary widely for many reasons, I recommend getting a range of quotations before employing a contractor, butthe cheapest is not necessarily the best, esp. if it is significantly cheaper.

So how is the poor punter supposed to decide? Isn't certification supposed to ensure that every quote they get, provided it is from a qualified electrician, is going to meet the standards and therefore the work will be, to all intents and purposes, as safe as any other quote? Not going for the cheapest simply because it is the cheapest is a sure way to drive up electricians' income, but is also a sure way to drive people to use cowboys because they can't afford the qualified. I agree that there can be suspiciously low quotes, but at what level does suspicion start?

8 - Bulb wattage rating on lamp fittings are NOT just about lamp shades - it also takes into account the size of the contacts and cable used within the fitting.

I think you're splitting hairs here. I'd be very curious to see a lamp fitting that is rated for a 40W bulb not being able to handle the current of a 100W bulb, let alone a 60W bulb. And this is irrelevant anyway, as the discussion was about whether to use the actual consumption or the "equivalent" value for a low energy bulb when determining the brightest lamp that can be installed in a fitting.

10 - ALL electrical work requires a certificate of some sort.

Don't you mean all work carried out by a contractor, rather than by the householder?

Do not buy bulbs in bulk packs - even branded ones - as if they are usually from the same production run and one of low tollerance or quality usualy means all in that batch are of the same ilk.

This makes no sense to me, as it's just as likely that they are all from a good batch and so none will suffer faults. Assuming no distorting factors like dud batches being dumped as bulk packs, there is no advantage either way.

Joe_Bruiser

So true. you cannot put a cost on ya life. close escape