The Work Program

saintjammyswine

DebiT wrote: »

See questions above.

Do you nly do it part time, or are you posting on here whilst you are at work? - on lunch thanks.

Are these the same employers who get free labour? - yes, also the same employers that provide training and mentoring throughout the 4 weeks. I cant keep repeating, I dont deal with any of the companies that are reported to be screwing people over - I arrange these partnerships and only deal with companies that can offer some real value to people.

Employed people in a proper job for at least NMW? - yes, with bonuses on a permanent basis with more to come after christmas (quiet time for them at xmas).

DebiT

Sorry Saintjammyswine, but looking at your previous posts, you post on here most days, all day.
So unless you start after 9am, have several hour lunch breaks, leave early, and have very long holidays, you are using your time at work to post on here rather than help all these people into work, and here you are talking down to the unemployed.

mattw7

DebiT wrote: »

Sorry Saintjammyswine, but looking at your previous posts, you post on here most days, all day.
So unless you start after 9am, have several hour lunch breaks, leave early, and have very long holidays, you are using your time at work to post on here rather than help all these people into work, and here you are talking down to the unemployed.

I'd like to add as well that he's probably abusing the internet use at his workplace too and obviously has such a cushy job can afford the time to keep reading/posting stuff on here and probably many other sites too. Maybe if you put more effort into your own job you'd probably help a lot more people into work seeing as though you claim to be so passionate about your job.

Or is this a case of do as I say, not as I do!

saintjammyswine

No, I am perfectly able to post on here whilst doing other things thanks.

Do enjoy your concern though. Nice to see you shifting the debate when presented with an alternative view to yours.

DebiT

saintjammyswine wrote: »

No, I am perfectly able to post on here whilst doing other things thanks.

Do enjoy your concern though. Nice to see you shifting the debate when presented with an alternative view to yours.

I dont think we are shifting the debate. Your posting on here all day long when you are being paid to find work for the unemployed, is not only taking advantage of your employers, but preventing you from doing your real work.
As an ex employer, I would not look kindly upon staff who spent their work time paid by me, on the internet.

dandelionclock30

Where I used to work, you would have been out of the door if you tossed it off that much on the internet when you were supposed to be working.They wouldnt have stood for it. Its actually quite contemptable saying that the unemployed should be doing this that and the other whilst tossing it off yourself dont you think?
It said on the news today that 710,000 more public sector workers were to lose their jobs over the next few years.When this happens and these people find it difficult to get another job it will be insulting to say that its due to having barriers like being a drug addict or having mental health problems etc. I think you have a very poor attitude for a public servant.

saintjammyswine

Thanks, taken on board. Most of my work is actually net based and so having this on a tab is no big deal.(from both my line manager & IT manager by the way)

Also, I use these forums for gaining valuable information about Employment, Training & Job Seeking. Although I post on here, a lot of what I read I do not comment on, simply use for research. Stories about WP are invaluable when dealing with JCP, employers, providers and clients. I do feel the need to stand up for them though when people make sweeping generalisations about them that, although correct in their own example, do not represent the whole picture.

imatt

The problem or rather problems with the WP are threefold.

Firstly, we have the WP itself. A replacement for New Deal and Flexible New Deal, it is supposedly a tailored and flexible solution . However, many parked on the WP see it as little different to FND. The main difference being that one in not placed in a classroom for 30 hours a week doing **** all! The WP is most a payment by results scheme, with payments going to providers once someone gains employment. In reality, this has discouraged a number of local charities, social enterprises and non-profit orgs bidding as they will have to wait up to TWO years to see any cash. This is amusing in one sense as Cameron and grayling boasted that such orgs would be at the forefront of the WP as part of the 'Big Society'!

The big boys such as A4e, Ingeus, Serco, etc have thus cornered the market (yet again) as they economies of scale work in their favour, as does cross-subsidising from their other business interests. That said, even these companies are going to find it harder to find sustainable employment for an ever increasing number of clients backed up by poor business practices.

Secondly, the companies running the WP are the same old firms that run the previous ND and FND. And they screwed that up as well, even when they made money hand over fist in those days! The poor facilities, poorly trained staff, overcrowding, etc were to become staple issues and concerns under these previous programs.

Two firms, A4e and Working Links were even famously caught committing fraud by forging employers signatures!!!

The big question - why did these companies get contract after contract? Because for some bizarre reason, the past poor performances of these companies was never taken into account! So we now have them running most of the WP! Also having people such as ex employment minister, David Blunkett on your payroll, earning £30k a year as a 'business advisor' (A4e)can't be bad either! Marvellous.

Thirdly, we have to take a look at the staff. Some advisors do a good job. Others however are pretty lamentable. And indeed incompetent to boot. This is due to poor training and the bad attitude of the individual employed. Either way, it is not good enough. For example, take CV's. CVs are being sent out to employers without the knowledge, let alone permission, of the clients, and they are often one-size-fits-all CVs imposed on the clients. If such a CV contains grammatical errors, who does that reflect badly on?

Now before anyone says "the people I work with at XYZ provider are not like that", please be aware that people sent onto the WP have no choice of provider and no say in who their advisor will be. Whilst some are okay, others ARE poorly trained and do have a pretty poor attitude. And no, this is not anecdotal evidence on my part. I have experienced it!!! And so have many others, who's stories I'm sorry to say are too damn similar to be a mere coincidence!

It is not enough to say there is good practice here or there. There should be good practice everywhere. if not, then 'clients' should have the RIGHT to use an alternative method.

I for one do not expect the WP to succeed. It'll be yet another in a long line of 'back to work scheme' failures. What with skyrocketing unemployment, staff will be under increased pressure with a merge budget to deal with.

Parva

I've experienced the WP first hand and can safely say that I was unimpressed. Having explained to the girl dealing with me on my first appointment that I had only ever done litho printing since I left school (some 27 years ago) and knew nothing else I also said that I would consider driving jobs upto and including 7.5 tonne provided that it wasn't multi-drop.

So we proceeded with the rest of the computerised questions until she pressed something which made the computer say no. 15 minutes of pointless mouse clicking ensued but the computer had definitely thrown its teddy. Anyway, we continued and during the diatribe I was being fed she said "We don't force you into any job you don't want to do".

Another 10 minutes passed and we moved onto some job searching. She said "How about this one, National Express require a security guard?". Errrm, not really my field love. "Ah, there's a full time warehouse operative required at Castleford". The long journey aside, what relevance do these jobs have for me?

Fortunately I managed to get off the merry-go-round that is the WP but I don't envy anyone that is subject to this shambles.

saintjammyswine

imatt wrote: »

The problem or rather problems with the WP are threefold.

......

It is not enough to say there is good practice here or there. There should be good practice everywhere. if not, then 'clients' should have the RIGHT to use an alternative method.

....

Have to agree with this part. I wish WP was perfect. Of course I do and I & the people I deal with try and make sure it is of value and provides the service it is supposed to.

Where there is bad service then yes, the client should have the right to either change provider or, with evidence that it happens, use other methods to gain employment.

I also agree that past performance has not been what it should have been.

I have to defend the ideas behind the WP and what I have been in contact with because I see good things happening. Unfortunately this is not replicated around the country by the reports on here.