MSE News: Orange to raise monthly mobile costs

badaz52

Some people really are missing the point here. Whether it's in Orange's T&C's or not is irrelevant. Just because we signed it doesn't mean squat if it isn't fair, as far as I know companies have their own legal departments and any t&cs they write do not get checked before allowing them to become public.

What matters here is basic consumer rights, they want to hold you to a contract for 12/18/24 months AND they want to have full control over the entire thing.

End of the day I am happy with my service from Orange at the agreed £35 per month (which is still expensive) compared to other companies. Now they inform me that I have no choice but to pay the increased tariff of £36.50 from January just because it says they can in their T&Cs?? to add to this Orange are TELLING me that the increase is not of material detriment as it is below the rate of inflation? seriously? who are they to judge my finances in a blatant show of generalisation?

Any increase during the term of your contract is negotiable by law, notice should be given within 30 days (which it has) and customers are entitled to be allowed out penalty free to look for a better deal, end of story.

It's the same with any product you purchase, say you bought a TV from Curry's for £500, you then have a sales contract/guarantee for 28 days to say if your not happy then you can return or exchange for a full refund. What is doesn't say and what many companies will have you believe is that if that same TV is reduced to £300 within 28 days then they don't owe you the difference. In actual fact they would owe you £200 or give you your £500 back.

It's the same story here, Orange are increasing the price of a service under my contract and I would like to return the product as I am not happy with the difference in price, it is of detriment to me. Just like with the TV I paid £500 then it was reduced within 28 days to £300, the price change is of detriment as I would have overpaid.

I am totally perplexed that far too many businesses and consumers believe that just because it's in their T&Cs and you agreed to it then nothing else matters and you don't have any rights.

This is a nation of money grabbing con artists that operate from behind large companies such as Orange, they know exactly when to and when not to rip you off and they know excactly how to word it.

They believe they have got round this by arguing it isn't of material detriment because it is below the rate of inflation. Orange are working off a loophole here and most of us are simply doing the same and excercising our basic consumer rights.

At the end of the day this is going to end two ways:

OFcom rule that Orange are wrong and order them to release all those customers who asked to leave their contract.

or

Orange drop the price increase

There is one more thing that a lot of people are forgetting here too. Orange set the tariff prices right? it is their service they are providing! if they REALLY needed to increase due to inflation why didn't they reduce the tariff price by the same percentage as inflation? instead of expecting us to pay for it.

As always a company has found a way to make a few more quid...

Oh one more thing it is also illegal to expect a customer to adhere to all the T&Cs if they were never disclosed to them at the time of the agreement.

Did Orange give you a copy of the T&Cs? did they provide a summary of contract particulars? did they explain anything to you on the phone? the answer for many is NO. Once again adding the small print of "terms and conditions" apply is OK but unless you point your customers to them and provide a summary of the most important terms it can still be contested.

I don't see how Orange can win this one tbh.

Guys_Dad

badaz52 wrote: »

At the end of the day this is going to end two ways:

OFcom rule that Orange are wrong and order them to release all those customers who asked to leave their contract.

or

Orange drop the price increase

You - and a number of others are missing the point completely. There is a 3rd way - Orange keep the increase in place and refuse to give way.

The whole issue is whether or not Orange can impose this increase or not - just as Vodafone did and, apparently Virgin, using the same type of escalation clauses in their contracts.

The stage we are at currently is one of DISPUTE and because you, and others, keep crying "illegal or unfair terms" doesn't make it so.

A properly constituted body - such as a court or OFCOM - needs to rule and, yes, we can help get a positive outcome by raising the issue and complaining like mad to OFCOM as I suggested above.

You need to comprehend the difference between whingeing and effectively raising complaints with the right people in order to win. A number of MSE members have already had positive results and got decreases in their contracts by doing the latter. Others are piling in to OFCOM so that, eventually, the numbers of complaints will cause them to act, one way or another.

You also need to understand that it is only the telecomms watchdog who seems to have in its regulations a badly written set of regs that seem to say, somewhat wishy-washy, that interim increases of a material nature give a get out of jail free to consumers. But it is precisely because of the nature of this wishy-washy imprecise clause that OFCOM are not publicly breaking cover.

And your paragraph "Any increase during the term of your contract is negotiable by law, notice should be given within 30 days (which it has) and customers are entitled to be allowed out penalty free to look for a better deal, end of story." has absolutely no basis in fact other than in your - and some other contributors' - minds. It needs to be tested in law first.

I would love it to be right, but we are not yet in a position to claim that Orange have broken OFCOM regulations.

badaz52

Guys_Dad wrote: »

And your paragraph "Any increase during the term of your contract is negotiable by law, notice should be given within 30 days (which it has) and customers are entitled to be allowed out penalty free to look for a better deal, end of story." has absolutely no basis in fact other than in your - and some other contributors' - minds. It needs to be tested in law first.

It does have basis though, correct me if I am wrong but don't you have a contract when you setup your gas/electric supplier? usually most companies sign you up to a contract.

When gas/electric increases and your in a contract your allowed to leave penalty free if the change does not suit right?

No matter what excuse Orange use it is still wrong to expect you to honour your contract when they are not honouring their end of the deal regardless of Orange's T&Cs other laws take precedence and OFcoms regulations will prevail I am sure.

thischris1991

finally found the number to the executive office. It works as I phoned and said that customer services had given it to me. Not sure if they will change it if i publish it so if you would like it then pm me and I will get back to you asap.

Waiting for a call back from the lady dealing with my complaint so see how it goes.

thischris1991

Orange at the moment are refusing to give out deadlock letters and are waiting for their legal team to see if they are able to issue them. Hmm to me sounds like someone is thinking we have annoyed a fair few customers here what can we do to get out of it??

Pilks

Any one started a Facebook Page detailing Information, its would be the best way to spread the word and get many more people invovled, after all, peolpe who don't know their rights are the people who Orange are counting on to not go elsewhere when their contract ends.

Still no word from Martin Lewis on this yet! I thought he would be banging on Ofcoms doors till they gave an answer!

subaur_swift

there is a link somwhere on here all ready some pages back i think.......

Cessquill

simax wrote: »

I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I think a couple of things are in play here (although I don't want to speak for burnleymilk).

1. It is the manor in which this has been handled. Arrogance and bullying will never win anybody any friends. Personally I've stayed with Orange since virtually the start because of brand loyalty. This abhorrent display has been the last nail for me and them

2. Mobile companies in general should not offer long term contracts (1 year+), if they can not adhere to them from their end. And putting get-out clauses for themselves is not adhering in my book. If they force 18/24 month contracts upon us, then they must shoulder the risk of the economy for that period - not pass it on to us. Whole other can of worms, I know.

3. Does anybody read and consider the T&Cs of everything signed up for? Surely ombudsmen are in place specifically to protect the consumer.

As mentioned, other short term contracts that haven't changed for me throughout their duration - car insurance, TV licence, bank loan, home insurance, car tax, prescription prepayment. Sure, renewal prices would may alter, but who do mobile operators think they are?

Maybe I'm being old fashioned, but whilst the customer may not always be right, the customer deserves to be treated a hell of a lot better than this.

Guys_Dad

badaz52 wrote: »

It does have basis though, correct me if I am wrong but don't you have a contract when you setup your gas/electric supplier? usually most companies sign you up to a contract.

When gas/electric increases and your in a contract your allowed to leave penalty free if the change does not suit right?

No matter what excuse Orange use it is still wrong to expect you to honour your contract when they are not honouring their end of the deal regardless of Orange's T&Cs other laws take precedence and OFcoms regulations will prevail I am sure.

I agree that the gas/electricity companies have that in their t&c. And good for them. But what about BT who have just raised their costs for landlines?

I don't disagree with you on the morality issue, but I keep coming back to the fact that until someone in authority tells Orange they are out of line, then they are acting in line with t&c that you agreed. They may be guilty of breaking OFCOM regulations - and why OFCOM haven't acted against them or Vodafone is beyond me if they have, indeed, broken their regs - but they have broken no laws until a court finds that they have.

And the last point about Martin not making a major. issue of it is a good one, Pilks. One little comment from a few weeks back.

It is NOT a clear cut issue.

BadgerFace_2

badaz52 wrote: »

When gas/electric increases and your in a contract your allowed to leave penalty free if the change does not suit right?

Incorrect, you still have to pay any applicable termination fee. However, your utilities are frozen at the pre-rise price until your new account is set up and you leave.

I'm sure if you asked orange, the same would apply and you could cancel on the basis of only paying the pre-rise amount.

I don't believe the OFCOM guidance is aimed at situations such as these...more at situations where the fair use policy was changed or certain no-chargeable numbers became chargeable, which caused certain customers bills to increase i.e. a change to their material detriment.

That said, it's a 'loophole', if you wish to try to pursue it, then good luck. If anyone succeeds in doing so, the mobile operators will take OFCOM to court in a heartbeat to challenge it.