MSE News: Orange to raise monthly mobile costs

Mhadf

St Marco, have a read of OFT v Ashbourne [2011] EWHC 1237 (Ch). If it's to the detriment of a customer it should be spelled out clearly to them (excluding people that deal with contracts day to day). As the company cannot assume that they have read or understood the detrimental terms of the contract.
ie, if the sales person said "oh by the way there is a term here that says they can put the prices up once a year" then it would be legal to do so as you are clearly informed. Hiding it in the small print and never mentioning it until upping the prices is against the UTCCR.

markmcw

My e-mail to the CEO.

Dear Mr Swantee,
I'm writing to you directly due to the staff running your call centre's being unable to help.

I have two issues with my Orange contract; Signal issues, and the recent price rises.

Living in a rural area, I find it extremely difficult to receive a signal within my home - yes, fair enough I'm inside of a house, walls may be thick etc. But the issue
is that I have only recently began to receive these issues with the merge of Orange and T-Mobile. My signal has drastically dropped and my mobile phone has to remain
sitting at a window at all times - this is not the fault of the mobile phone and after the support staff switching off Orange T-Mobile signals the issue hasn't fixed and it simply turned itself on again. In other locations such as my place of work - signal is not available what so ever. Therefore paying what's soon to be £42 a month for a
contract that cannot be used to it's full potential is practically throwing my money away. Calling Orange Customer services I got transferred several different times to what seemed to be
several different locations. My first call was to England - the gentleman that answered my call clearly told me 'mate, it's going to be £490 to cancel early' I explained
my reasons why I refused to pay this (clearly, this was not my fault for wanting to cancel) - but he refused to reconsider so I thanked him, and terminated the call..

I called again, and after another 18 minute wait on the phone before getting answered the member of staff started to listen to what was wrong, I explained 'I can't get a signal,
I'm paying £42 a month for something I can't use. This isn't my fault and therefore I don't think I should pay.' The member of staff quoted me $496 - why this was in dollar, not pounds
more expensive than originally quoted and why they previously ignored what I had just told him. I explained again and again and after being put on hold 4 times and being on the call for 45 minutes at this point I returned to the call making it clear that I wanted to talk to the supervisor about this issue.

So being transferred for the 5th time I spoke to the 'team leader' explained again and at this point customer service went down the tube. The leader began to shout down the phone at myself (even though I was being calm with him and explaining the issues). When I made a comment when he said something wrong - he shouted over me and replied 'do you mind if I talk' showing a lack of respect towards myself. He said 'You are clearly able to use the phone as you've been on the phone for 170 minutes today' - I replied to this comment 'Look who those calls are to, yourselves!' This comment made him suddenly go quiet and then come back stating that 'I would send out an engineer (even though he was in a foreign - non-English speaking county) to check out the mast and would give me a call in '48' hours which he stated would be a Sunday (this was on a Wednesday, therefore should have been Friday). The team-leader DID not call me back and from then on I have lost all faith in the company's respect towards their customers. I have not attempted to make any further contact after this point.

Then... On Monday afternoon I received a text message from your company 'From January 8th we shall be increasing the price of your tarrif' at this point I had enough - firstly I feel like I am overpaying for a service which I cannot use and now Orange decide to INCREASE THEIR PRICES. Because of a 'UK Government issue' - the government are not making Orange increase your prices? So why does your call-center staff read off a script that says they do? Why when speaking to a supervisor again about the staff giving false information do they reply 'Okay, I didn't know that'. Failure to train your staff to a satisfying standard? The contract which you have created was NOT given to myself when I signed up with an external company (which you must have given my number to as they called me saying that they were 'Orange' sales when it turned out to be a partner company of Carphone Warehouse).

I did not agree to your unbalanced, unfair contact which has gotten me into a situation which is getting harder to pay. I have been with Orange for at least 7-8 years having had 2 contacts and several Pay-as-you-go phones on your network and finally I have had enough. The network's lost all care for it's customers and instead became more money hungry.

I wish for my contact to be terminated early, and I REFUSE to pay £490 or $494 whichever alternative currency the company wishes to tell it's CSR's that they use on the useless scripts you provide to them.

Thank you for taking time out to read my email, and I would like to expect contact in return within the next 24 hours. I have included all information regarding my account at the bottom of this email.

jasonwatkins

Mhadf wrote: »

I can post my initial email if you'd like.
I'm working on a reply that leaves no doubt as to their obligations

I'd certainly appreciate it if you can. I'm never that good with the sort of legalese type letters for these situations. angry-from-cheam I can do, but i tend to waffle with complaints

*edit*

just seen it .. thankyou

Flip77

kelvinguest wrote: »

I read somewhere that this applys only to contracts before 1st September an the increase for contracts after this date should have had the increase added automatically?? i can't rememer where i read it though

You're right, it's on the link they send you by text....so why have I been sent a text??

Mhadf

no problems, I sent it expecting a cut and paste reply and got one about 4.3.1 and government.

My follow up (which was more detailed) hasn't been answered yet by the exec office.
If that fails I'm drafting a dense legal one with Acts and the case law references for the meaning of complex things like Good Faith, all pointing at why their 4.3.1 is illegal and therefore why they should allow us to cancel under Ofcom general conditions 9.6(b).

Looking through the various laws and legal requirements I came upon this......

Complaints – consideration by Director

10.—(1) It shall be the duty of the Director to consider any complaint made to him that any contract term drawn up for general use is unfair, unless–
(a)the complaint appears to the Director to be frivolous or vexatious; or
(b)a qualifying body has notified the Director that it agrees to consider the complaint.
(2) The Director shall give reasons for his decision to apply or not to apply, as the case may be, for an injunction under regulation 12 in relation to any complaint which these Regulations require him to consider.
(3) In deciding whether or not to apply for an injunction in respect of a term which the Director considers to be unfair, he may, if he considers it appropriate to do so, have regard to any undertakings given to him by or on behalf of any person as to the continued use of such a term in contracts concluded with consumers.

Does that mean if we complain to Olaf Swantee then he has to reply explaining why he thinks it's legal?

kelvinguest

Are Ofcom Looking into this or is it their official stance still "complain to orange"??

cschat

I have two mobile phone contracts one I have recieved a text on the other I havent I also have an Ipad on a data contract. Will the price increase apply on all of these or just phones? I will be complaining due to the principle of this but it would really make a point if everybody managed to use this as an excuse to cancel their contracts.

sellers0208

this is what ofcom's website says -
"When you take out a broadband or phone deal it’s understandable that you expect to get what you signed up for.
But sometimes a communications provider may decide to alter the terms and conditions of your original contract.
They can do this so long as they follow certain Ofcom rules, called General Conditions.
If a communications provider wants to alter a contract’s terms and conditions, they must consider, among other things, whether the change will be of material detriment to their customers.
Under General Condition 9.6, communications providers must provide customers for whom a change is likely to be of material detriment with one month’s notice of the change.
Customers must also be informed that they are entitled to terminate their contract without penalty if the change is not acceptable to them.
If you are affected you by such a change, in the first instance you should speak to your provider about your concerns.
If the problem relates to a particular term or condition, you can contact ofcom. Ofcom monitors complaints about the behaviour of communications providers and if there is a high volume of complaints about a particular issue, we may investigate and take action as required."

i called ofcom and they say that customers are within their rights to cancel.
i've spoken to orange 3 times now and they repeat the section in ther terms and conditions over and over. what these terms carify is oranges rights to raise prices if and when they choose, which is obviously not what we are complaining about. ofcom have told me, as the above states, that even though the terms and conditions say they can put their prices up, they have a responsibility to allow customers to decline and terminate contracs without having to pay exiet fees/penalties etc.
we have now put a formal complaint to orange and will be contacting the ombudsmen too.
please let us know if anyone has any success.

WillBanyard

here's where people need advice on how to instruct a company that they, as a consumer, are changing their terms and conditions. This is a terrible state of affairs and they're legally allowed to put into a contract that they can change anything within the contract and the consumer must go along with it. It is wrong for them to be allowed to have a price increase clause in their contract in the first place, this is the underlying issue which needs to be dealt with.

Imagine all of us writing to our employers and stating that as RPI and inflation are so high, they must pay us 5.4% more. What would the response be?

Sadly, if Orange are cheapest, even with this increase, no-one can afford to switch out of principle anyway!

millyj_2

kelvinguest wrote: »

I read somewhere that this applys only to contracts before 1st September an the increase for contracts after this date should have had the increase added automatically?? i can't rememer where i read it though

The news article on here said the 1st September.

*not allowed to post link because I'm new *

However I took out my contract with Orange for my new phone on the 12th September and they have sent me a price hike text.
Their web site

not allowed to post link because i'm new *

basically says anyone that signed on to a monthly price plan that was available mid September is affected. Nice and vague....

I have a printed contract from in store and the sales man forgot to get me to tick and sign the bit that says I have seen the T&C's so I will be complaining to OFCOM and telling them that I don't have an enforceable contract anyway :j