Ebay buyer says they haven't received item yet

MyOnlyPost

Oliver14 wrote: »

Because buyers are your customers not Royal Mails. Also it's a small thing you seem to be having problems with called customer service.

You selectively quote a post in which I criticise eBay and use it as a criticism of me. Unlike most people on here I am able to have a hypothetical argument, i.e. what I am arguing is what should happen in an ideal world. It isn't necessarily what I adhere to or advise others to.

I notice no one has quoted or commented on what they would do if after refunding RM then delivered?

soolin

MyOnlyPost wrote: »

You selectively quote a post in which I criticise eBay and use it as a criticism of me. Unlike most people on here I am able to have a hypothetical argument, i.e. what I am arguing is what should happen in an ideal world. It isn't necessarily what I adhere to or advise others to.

I notice no one has quoted or commented on what they would do if after refunding RM then delivered?

Hypothetically then, how would i know something has been delivered after i refunded?

NOT hypothetically, I have received a payment from an Australian buyer a week after I refunded as item finally arrived and I have also made a payment to a seller where my item arrived 6 weeks after paying and 4 weeks after I received a refund.(the latter one was one of my Hong Kong purchases)

MyOnlyPost

soolin wrote: »

Hypothetically then, how would i know something has been delivered after i refunded? I have received a payment from an Australian buyer a week after I refunded as item finally arrived and I have also made a payment to a seller where my item arrived 6 weeks after paying and 4 weeks after I received a refund.(the latter one was one of my Hong Kong purchases)

You wouldn't know whether it had been received or not. The argument is that after the 14 days RM are liable for a refund to you. In my hypothetical scenario you don't get a refund from RM if you refund on day 10 and they deliver on day 11. Waiting an extra week the buyer still gets their refund, but so do you. Refunding on day 10 the buyer now has the item and the money and you have neither. Like I said this isn't necessarily what I do, or advocate others do, but surely we can agree that buyers should wait to be fair to us!

It's very nice of the Australian buyer to pay you again. I have three very close friends who have emigrated "Down Under" and this doesn't surprise me at all as everything I hear about Australians suggests they have a different ethic and ethos to us Brits. It's also very honest of you to make payment to the seller when you received your item and you should be commended for this. However it would be very naive to think all buyers would do this just because we would.

Both of your examples are for overseas sales and we are discussing the period that RM take to declare a parcel lost, which I believe wouldn't apply to both the countries you have stated.

soolin

MyOnlyPost wrote: »

You wouldn't know whether it had been received or not. The argument is that after the 14 days RM are liable for a refund to you. In my hypothetical scenario you don't get a refund from RM if you refund on day 10 and they deliver on day 11. Waiting an extra week the buyer still gets their refund, but so do you. Refunding on day 10 the buyer now has the item and the money and you have neither. Like I said this isn't necessarily what I do, or advocate others do, but surely we can agree that buyers should wait to be fair to us!

It's very nice of the Australian buyer to pay you again. I have three very close friends who have emigrated "Down Under" and this doesn't surprise me at all as everything I hear about Australians suggests they have a different ethic and ethos to us Brits. It's also very honest of you to make payment to the seller when you received your item and you should be commended for this. However it would be very naive to think all buyers would do this just because we would.

Both of your examples are for overseas sales and we are discussing the period that RM take to declare a parcel lost, which I believe wouldn't apply to both the countries you have stated.

20 working days for overseas but my Australian buyer preferred to only wait 2 weeks in total. I have refunded about 2 other things this year and probably the same last year and would always do so in 2nd week.

These losses are figured into my business plan as I want longlevity as a seller and keep my buyers happy. Every body has their own model though of course and who is really to say what business model is best. However I have been accused on other threads of seeing ebay as a warm fluffy place whereas the reality for most other sellers is different. I found that remark quite interesting and it maybe shows that we sellers do need to be more understandign of buyers if we want to be the ones to survive in a competitive market during a recession.

soolin

With apologies there is a mistake in my post that you have quoted so I can't change it without making nonsense of the thread. However the Hong Kong item was quite recent so I happen to be on ebay and checked and I got my refund 4 weeks after payment (I did have to open a case in ebay for that one but seller refunded before ebay forced them) and I received the goods a further 2 weeks after that- so in total I received the goods 8 weeks after payment.

Oliver14

MyOnlyPost wrote: »

However it would be very naive to think all buyers would do this just because we would..

Why? In general most people are honest if you would pay if you receive an item after you have been refunded why do you assume others wouldn't?

In all likelihood people will. Honest up front sellers attract honest buyers. Also if you're getting more than a couple of losses per 1000 sales something else is wrong. So taking that small risk on refunding at a reasonable time on a couple of losses ifs worth it just for the customer goodwill.

I have a customer who's first transaction with me the item was lost. I refunded after 10 days. The item eventually got returned to me so i resent it and let them have the item as a freebie. Even though the loss want my fault I wasn't my customers tho have a good experience with me. Now that customer frequently returns and spends 100s of pounds at a time. If I had tried to get them to wait 15 days and treated them like some scammer I would have lost out on a lot of good business.

MyOnlyPost

soolin wrote: »

These losses are figured into my business plan as I want longlevity as a seller and keep my buyers happy. Every body has their own model though of course and who is really to say what business model is best.

I think we may have finally reached some common ground. Every seller should adopt a policy that they are happy with and run their business how they see fit. A reminder of my first post in this thread

It's very difficult as the post office won't declare it lost for 14 days, so technically you shouldn't refund until then. Most buyers however are not prepared to wait that long but I agree with what has been said above, 3 days is too soon. I wouldn't ask a seller where my item was until 7 days unless I had paid for express delivery.

I have never said that I wouldn't refund within the 14 day period and I haven't advised the OP that they shouldn't either. I have simply stated the facts with regard to RM refund policy and the reality of selling on eBay

MyOnlyPost

Oliver14 wrote: »

Why? In general most people are honest if you would pay if you receive an item after you have been refunded why do you assume others wouldn't?

I'm looking for the bit in my post where I said most other buyers wouldn't pay, I can't find it so could you maybe quote it for me?

Oh that's right I said not ALL customers would pay. Do you know the difference between most and all?

Most, the majority. All, the entirety. So unless you are arguing that everyone would pay again if they received the item after being refunded I don't see your point.

Also whilst the majority of people are honest a very significant minority aren't. If only 10% of the population are prepared to be dishonest that's close to 7 million people. The govt estimate that in 2010/2011 £3.3bn was lost to benefit fraud. How many dishonest people do you think it takes to defraud £3.3bn? And that's not counting the dishonest people who don't claim benefits.

Direct quote from a KPMG article

KPMG's recent Fraud Barometer showed a dramatic increase in workplace fraud, recording 123 cases of serious fraud by employees and managers in 2009 - a record high in the barometer's 22-year history which cost UK plc approximately £567 million. Yet while the methodology is first-rate, even KPMG admits this is ‘the tip of the iceberg'.

Firstly, it only records frauds of £100k+. Secondly, it only records fraudsters who were caught. Finally, it ignores frauds to which it's impossible to apply a value or which have only an indirect impact.

If this is just the incidents over £100k+ imagine the level of incidents below that threshold! This is why I am not prepared to assume that everyone is honest and I say it is naive of anyone to assume they are.

Rikki

I am at the moment an eBay purchase has gone missing on it's way to me. I have waited for 14 days, today being day 17 I have e-mailed the seller to advise them there is still no luck. I don't mind waiting the 14 days but would now expect the seller to refund me.

It is not the sellers fault it's Royal Mail but I don't expect to wait till the seller has been refunded first.

MyOnlyPost

Rikki wrote: »

I am at the moment an eBay purchase has gone missing on it's way to me. I have waited for 14 days, today being day 17 I have e-mailed the seller to advise them there is still no luck. I don't mind waiting the 14 days but would now expect the seller to refund me.

It is not the sellers fault it's Royal Mail but I don't expect to wait till the seller has been refunded first.

Agreed fully. The seller should now make a full and immediate refund. You are what most sellers on here would refer to as a model buyer. I hope the seller you bought from appreciates that!