Student Debt on MoneyBox Live BBC4 RUBBISH!!

Lokolo

setmefree2 wrote: »

Ha Ha Lokolo luckily I don't give a flying hoot what you think! I know I'm a great parent because a)my kids tell me b) my OH tells me c) and others tell me - even my MIL !!!!

As I said, reducing this thread to insults about peoples parenting so so poor.....

I didn't mean to insult you, if you think that sorry (I made sure in my post I didn't call you a crap parent, because I'm sure your not, after all you are on here discussing about your children's future. I just tried to find a way of differentiating you from devil). I just don't understand why you, and 2sides2everystory seem to want to push your views onto your children.

As I have said, by all means disagree with me and others, I do not have a problem with this. I just think the way you post seems to think its your decision, when it's not. You have the choice of giving money to your children to support their university or not which is fine. Whether it's used for savings, a house deposit etc. I think you should have your say yes, but ultimately leave it up to them to decide.

setmefree2

kayr wrote: »

I wish we could have a less aggressive discussion about it.

Many parents have pmed me asking if there are any other sites where they can go to discuss the student loan situation without the constant haranguing they get on this here. Pampering, controlling, interfering, helicoptering.... on and on - and they are the better insults.

It's like this board was guarded by a pack of rottweilers just waiting to pounce on anyone who doesn't adhere to the "party" line. Frightening. The investment board used to be like this. God help anyone who ever suggested that MSEers shouldn't be putting their money into Icelandic banks, they were ripped to pieces. We all know how that turned out. The housing board was also like this. In 2008 plenty of posters were warning that house prices were about to take a large fall. They were forced on to one solitary thread by the moderators. And guess what? House prices fell 20%. The mortgage free board used to suffer from a constant parade of posters telling people not to overpay their mortgage but instead to stick their hard earned pounds in the stock market. Funny that all stopped in 2008 too.

Group think is a very dangerous thing.

Personally, I'd be more than happy to push off if only I could find somewhere else to go.... sadly, I've found nothing...but don't think I haven't looked. The bias on this site could quite easily lead people to make very costly errors....

imao

(because I've been called arrogant too - I guess it's because I like to think for myself!!!!)

Have a Good Day Y'all!

2sides2everystory

I just don't understand why you, and 2sides2everystory seem to want to push your views onto your children.

Your language has an unfortunate insulting tone today, Lokolo. You are the one trying to push views onto my children by smothering these threads which they are bound to read with pro-government propaganda. I am one who has brought them up in such a way as they might continue to make admirable progress in this crazy world.

As SMF2 has said we as parents do not care a flying hoot for your views or judgements now about parenting skills or much else, because you seem brainwashed with some kind of laissez-faire philosophy when it comes to the promotion of significant life-changing financial transactions. I doubt any significant section of the thread readership has the stomach for too much of that.

It was interesting once to learn that you took a student loan in the not too dim distant past and that you succeeded to the extent that you even took a new ok paid job fairly recently. I sometimes wonder if that new job you took was as a government blogger

And that essentially may be all we need to know.

The_One_Who

Let's say there is use of rather evocative and insulting language on both sides of this.

Lokolo

setmefree2 wrote: »

Personally, I'd be more than happy to push off if only I could find somewhere else to go.... sadly, I've found nothing...but don't think I haven't looked. The bias on this site could quite easily lead people to make very costly errors....

Have you tried TheStudentRoom?

If you think I'm bad in here, go there and you'll think I am a saint in comparison!

2sides2everystory wrote: »

Your language has an unfortunate insulting tone today, Lokolo. You are the one trying to push views onto my children by smothering these threads which they are bound to read with pro-government propoganda. I am one who has brought them up in such a way as they might continue to make admirable progress in this crazy world.

As I said previous, I am not meaning to insult people and if I have I am sorry. I am not trying to smother these threads, I am trying to give a balanced views.

A few examples where I've tried to balance out what people have said;

A number of people come on here screaming and shouting about the amount of debt and how much of an impact it would have. Pretty much nil. It's not the amount you owe, but the amount you pay back which should be the main part people should look at. This is why I keep saying that people should consider the loans a tax rather than a typical commercial debt (whereby you will always pay back what you owe).

Another is when SMF posted the BBC student loan calculator, which I commented that the calculator seems to think that those that take out more loan, will pay back more, which is untrue. If you look at the calulator, changing the amount of debt seems to change your salary, which in turn changes the amount you pay back. How is the amount you borrow correlated to the amount of salary you are on?

2sides2everystory wrote: »

It was interesting once to learn that you took a student loan in the not too dim distant past and that you succeeded to the extent that you even took a new ok paid job fairly recently. I sometimes wonder if that new job you took was as a government blogger

Yes, so I like to think I have some practical knowledge rather than just looking at the numbers. But no, don't worry, I don't work for the government

If you read my posts carefully you will notice that of course I do not fully support the new student loans. The new interest during education at +3% is appaling. The talk of having penalties for early repayment I think is terrible. But at the same time, only having to pay 9% above a generous threshold is good. Having the debt wiped after 30 years, is good.

iclaudius_2

Can we address a few points with some facts please:

The much celebrated 30 year payment plan assumes that many lucky uni-educated taxpayers (read low-earning) will avoid repaying the full amount. To let your kids get into massive levels of high interest debt you can be comforted that should they not earn much they will probably be OK.

The 2011 mean salary in London right now is £37.5k per annum. Using Martin's own dodgy calculations that means for the average future Londoner that £43k you borrow will cost you over £100k over the life of the loan.

If you choose to ignore this thing as a debt and rather view it as a tax - the average future Londoner will have a 41% income tax rate based on today's mean salaries. If that average Londoner were to get another £5k a year in earnings the tax rate leaps to 51%.

We're not talking about the priveledged few high flyers here at all. The vast majority of our children's generation will be sat on these crazy income tax levels.

People are asking for solutions on this forum. Mine is for people to stop sitting around waiting for the government to fix things for them. The future cost of universtiy education will some day reflect actual cost and the student is going to be asked to foot the bill. In our household we will accept this and plan to save and pay for the course. We are not wealthy but have the benefit of 14 years to live on baked beans and save. I feel really bad for all those students who woke up some time in 2011 and realised they are going to have to pay for their education with no notice to prepare.

iclaudius_2

p.s. those figures are taken from the ONS November 2011 bulletin "Average gross weekly earnings of full-time1 employees, by region"

Lokolo

iclaudius wrote: »

The 2011 mean salary in London right now is £37.5k per annum. Using Martin's own dodgy calculations that means for the average future Londoner that £43k you borrow will cost you over £100k over the life of the loan.

FYI the figures stated on Martin's calculator are the starting salaries and the amount you pay back has included pay rises year on year.

The mean salary won't be the starting salary for a graduate.

I think you are either a) thinking that a starting salary for a graduate in London is £37.5k or b) The salaries stated on his calculator are based upon the amount you earn at the time, whereas they are not, they are based on the salary you start with.

Your comment about the taxes also does not make much sense. Can you explain where you got the 41%, 51% and the earning and extra £5k means you pay back an extra 10% tax from?

Oldernotwiser

devildog wrote: »

ONW- Sorry to say that your comment re "Can only assume you feel threatened............................." is way below the belt and imho uncalled for.

I'm afraid that anyone who accuses me of "grooming" young people deserves all they get!

iclaudius_2

I understand this is how he's done it which is why I'm calling those tools 'dodgy'

All of those calculations are based on the premise that people's salaries grow by 2% per annum in a straight line starting from their first job. While some rates are universal and beyond an individual's control (such as RPI or Tax) this is one area which varies wildly.

Most starting salaries are pretty sorry but tend to rise quickly as your career progresses. For me that was 16% p.a. for the first 7 years of work. This rate may taper or even decline - who knows - but using a straight line instead of a curve really messes with those figures.