Student Debt on MoneyBox Live BBC4 RUBBISH!!

amiehall

What is the alternative to taking out the loan? If you decide you/your children don't need or want the loan that's up to you but there's no point being so melodramatic about it! Why wouldn't people take a student loan if they want to go into higher education? What alternative would they have?

I'd probably be almost in my 50s before I saved up enough money to pay for fees/maintenance etc! I don't see how that's different from paying a student loan into my 50s tbh.

PaulW1965

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Have you not noticed the missing voice in these discussions - the voice of all those parents (and students) from normal families who don't have many thousands of pounds available to them. I only hope that your assertions haven't convinced them that university isn't for the likes of them and is only for the wealthy like you.

Oh spare us the selfrighteous indignation, the melodrama and the crocodile tears Onw. You've said many, many times that you think less students should go to uni. So you are getting exactly what they want and you really are the worst type of hypocrite.

PaulW1965

Voyager2002 wrote: »

I am somewhat bemused by the concern expressed at how much graduates might pay once they earn more than 37,000 per year -- that is a good deal more than I have ever earned (and I'm in my fifties; hold three degrees including a doctorate; have managed a programme at an elite research centre in Africa...) and so it seems reasonable to me that someone on that kind of money should face a marginal income tax rate of around fifty per cent.

I'm also bemused at how little some people on claim to MSE earn? (How on earth do you guys live?) Are you female? I guess you didn't enter the work force until you were nearly 30? I suppose that alone would put most employers off.

How can anyone on £37k think they should be paying tax at 50%? You say you have 3 degrees? Well none of them are in economics I guess?

Oldernotwiser

PaulW1965 wrote: »

Oh spare us the selfrighteous indignation, the melodrama and the crocodile tears Onw. You've said many, many times that you think less students should go to uni. So you are getting exactly what they want and you really are the worst type of hypocrite.

I've certainly said that I think fewer people should go to university but that's hardly the same thing as saying that those from poor families shouldn't go whilst those from wealthy backgrounds should, which seems to be what many here have in mind.

Nothing hypocritical about that.

Oldernotwiser

PaulW1965 wrote: »

I'm also bemused at how little some people on claim to MSE earn? (How on earth do you guys live?) Are you female? I guess you didn't enter the work force until you were nearly 30? I suppose that alone would put most employers off.

How can anyone on £37k think they should be paying tax at 50%? You say you have 3 degrees? Well none of them are in economics I guess?

And I'm always amazed at how some people think it's normal for graduates to be high earners and that everybody should expect to be a higher rate tax payer by their thirties. Talk about divorced from the real world!

Lokolo

PaulW1965 wrote: »

I'm also bemused at how little some people on claim to MSE earn? (How on earth do you guys live?) Are you female? I guess you didn't enter the work force until you were nearly 30? I suppose that alone would put most employers off.

How can anyone on £37k think they should be paying tax at 50%? You say you have 3 degrees? Well none of them are in economics I guess?

You wouldnt be paying 50% tax on £37k. I am unsure why people keep thinking this.

melancholly

PaulW1965 wrote: »

I'm also bemused at how little some people on claim to MSE earn? (How on earth do you guys live?) Are you female? I guess you didn't enter the work force until you were nearly 30? I suppose that alone would put most employers off.

How can anyone on £37k think they should be paying tax at 50%? You say you have 3 degrees? Well none of them are in economics I guess?

i'm very much hoping that you aren't suggesting that being female would automatically put employers off

i think it's important to realise that the amounts quoted for graduate incomes usually come from a time when there were less students. these days, a lot of students getting a lot of degrees from a lot of unis won't be earning big money. there will always be those who go into the city and do very very well. these are the minority. and with more graduates plus a recession, this minority is getting smaller.

as it goes, i live very well on less that £37K! perhaps largely due to information on this site!). i live within my means and prioritise my spending. i still earn more than the average salary so i find it a little offensive to suggest that i should be barely making ends meet to be honest...... i know i do better than a lot of people and, although i'm not hugely motivated by 'money', i feel comfortable and secure which is important to me. that's enough for me. i don't equate job importance with salary and i hope a lot of other people don't either.

i think we should have less students - however, i hate the idea that the number of students will drop based on parental income where only more wealthy students will go to uni. that would be a sad outcome but i wouldn't be surprised if this system achieved exactly that.

iclaudius_2

Voyager2002 wrote: »

I have read the whole of this discussion, and two points stand out:
1. So long as the system remains as it is at present, the advice given on Moneybox Live is sensible. I am somewhat bemused by the concern expressed at how much graduates might pay once they earn more than 37,000 per year -- that is a good deal more than I have ever earned (and I'm in my fifties; hold three degrees including a doctorate; have managed a programme at an elite research centre in Africa...) and so it seems reasonable to me that someone on that kind of money should face a marginal income tax rate of around fifty per cent. Oh: and I am a parent of students...
2. We don't know what is going to happen to the student loan system in the future, and indeed it could become more like that found in the USA. Certainly, that prospect means that it would be better not to have any student debt than to take on student debt, other things being equal. But other things are not equal, at least not for most people. There is abundant evidence that child poverty damages academic performance. My fear is that some parents might be influenced by this discussion and save money that they ought to spend while their children are young. Money saved to cover university expenses will be of little use if the children face the disadvantages that are associated with poverty; do not perform sufficiently well at school to get places at reasonable universities; or even do arrive at university but without the habits of mind and general knowledge that are needed for a successful university career.

Note the figure of £37k is the mean salary in London. Salaries are not absolute but relative to the cost of living.

Believe me, with massive transport costs, housing costs and two kids, £37k in London does not mean you are well off.

But that aside we need to be thinking if a person on an average salary in London should have to pay the 50% tax rate?

(ps, Lokolo this tax rate is taken from Martin's own table he publishes at the bottom of his article on 20 changes)

Lokolo

melancholly wrote: »

i'm very much hoping that you aren't suggesting that being female would automatically put employers off

i think it's important to realise that the amounts quoted for graduate incomes usually come from a time when there were less students. these days, a lot of students getting a lot of degrees from a lot of unis won't be earning big money. there will always be those who go into the city and do very very well. these are the minority. and with more graduates plus a recession, this minority is getting smaller.

For anyone that is interested, these are my friends earnings. 1 year after graduation (apart from me, I graduated this year).

Maths - £12k
Biology (something like Biologicial Sciences) - £13k
Not sure what this guy did - £13k
Business Management - £15k
Maths - £21k
Risk Management - £21k
Computer Science - ~£30-35k
Computer Games Programming - £33k

The ones in italics are in jobs they don't plan on doing forever but they haven't made up their minds about what they wan to do in life.

The last 2, are both on graduate scheme in the city.

The rest are working regular, non graduate scheme jobs. (Business Management is studying CIMA, Maths is studying ACA)

Obviously you can quote averages etc. and my examples are only a small sample. But you can see there is a clear range of salaries depending on what you did at uni, what your career plans are and where you work.

Lokolo

iclaudius wrote: »

Note the figure of £37k is the mean salary in London. Salaries are not absolute but relative to the cost of living.

Believe me, with massive transport costs, housing costs and two kids, £37k in London does not mean you are well off.

But that aside we need to be thinking if a person on an average salary in London should have to pay the 50% tax rate?

(ps, Lokolo this tax rate is taken from Martin's own table he publishes at the bottom of his article on 20 changes)

Ah thank you. So people have been discounting the personal allowance and using the tax band numbers, and thus saying £35/37k is 51%, whereas its more towards £42k.