Student Debt on MoneyBox Live BBC4 RUBBISH!!

setmefree2

iclaudius wrote: »

But that aside we need to be thinking if a person on an average salary in London should have to pay the 50% tax rate?

Totally agree with you iclaudius, I think these marginal tax rates are appalling. I've been banging on/boring everyone with this for awhile now

But what can you do? When someone posts something like "I earn £37k and I think I should pay tax at the 50% rate" ?????? What???!!!! I mean where do you even start with a comment like that.

Under the current student loan system graduates are paying marginal tax rate of 42% at £15k. They've all been "educated" into thinking that is ok.

I definitely think it's dreadful but I'm pretty much on my own. I definitely don't want my kids facing those sorts of tax rates because I think it's a massive disincentive to work. But apparently I'm just a scaremongering - I ask you, what can you do? *exhales deeply*

Lokolo

setmefree2 wrote: »

Totally agree with you iclaudius, I think these marginal tax rates are appalling. I've been banging on/boring everyone with this for awhile now

But what can you do? When someone posts something like "I earn £37k and I think I should pay tax at the 50% rate" ?????? What???!!!! I mean where do you even start with a comment like that.

Under the current student loan system graduates are paying marginal tax rate of 42% at £15k. They've all been "educated" into thinking that is ok.

I definitely think it's dreadful but I'm pretty much on my own. I definitely don't want my kids facing those sorts of tax rates because I think it's a massive disincentive to work.

But can you provide a solution? The country is still deficit.

By all means, if you come up witha viable solution, as well as cutting rates, and run for PM. I'd vote for you. (unless you ran as BNP or something...)

You aren't alone at all. But theres very little that can be done at the moment.

setmefree2

Lokolo wrote: »

But can you provide a solution? The country is still deficit.

By all means, if you come up witha viable solution, as well as cutting rates, and run for PM. I'd vote for you. (unless you ran as BNP or something...)

You aren't alone at all. But theres very little that can be done at the moment.

Well maybe we are going the way of Scandinavia and people are just willing to accept these sorts of marginal tax rates?? High earners won't though...

HarryL

2sides2everystory wrote: »

I think your views are past their sell by date ONW

You need to stay current.

I very much think you views are out dated! try 15-20 years........

Go back to managing Fifa.

PS (edit): Had to add this in. But I've just read some of your posts and whats with your username? You have never appeared to give even slightly balanced opinions or arguments using points from the other side. Its very much 'this is my point of view and tis better than yours' and the assumptions you make to back up your 'ranting' posts are rediculous. you call people progantists and government bloggers with zero proof just the knowledge that they agree with the government (which what? no one does without being paid by them?)

kayr_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

And I'm always amazed at how some people think it's normal for graduates to be high earners and that everybody should expect to be a higher rate tax payer by their thirties. Talk about divorced from the real world!

I'm not sure people do think that. It would depend on circumstances - for instance if your child was about to start at Oxford to do medicine or law, say, you/they would have a different set of calculations to do compared to someone doing a course leading to a less well paid sector at a less competitive university. There is a massive range of "graduate salaries" but sometimes high expectations have a basis in fact.

kayr_2

melancholly wrote: »

i think we should have less students - however, i hate the idea that the number of students will drop based on parental income where only more wealthy students will go to uni. that would be a sad outcome but i wouldn't be surprised if this system achieved exactly that.

I'm not sure this system will put off students from poorer backgrounds - or it shouldn't, as according to my son, some of his fellow students get grant of nearly £3k plus bursary of £3.4K (so don't need to take out maintenance loan) and he reckons some get even more, up to £8K - not sure where from; will quiz him on that. However his observation is that the "squeezed middle" have problems - household income at the threshold so no grant, minimum loan and parents unable to help much, especially if there are 2 or more kids. I think they would be the ones put off from going to university. I almost wish this new system was really operated as a graduate tax as I think perhaps students from poorer backgrounds would find that less off putting than £x of debt.

Sorry if it's uncool to do 2 posts on the trot!! But I am definitely not cool anyway.

Oldernotwiser

setmefree2 wrote: »

I definitely think it's dreadful but I'm pretty much on my own. I definitely don't want my kids facing those sorts of tax rates because I think it's a massive disincentive to work. But apparently I'm just a scaremongering - I ask you, what can you do? *exhales deeply*

I'm sure you're not on your own but I feel that we should actually pay more tax - with higher personal allowances to take low earners out of being tax payers.

melancholly

kayr wrote: »

I'm not sure this system will put off students from poorer backgrounds - or it shouldn't, as according to my son, some of his fellow students get grant of nearly £3k plus bursary of £3.4K (so don't need to take out maintenance loan) and he reckons some get even more, up to £8K - not sure where from; will quiz him on that. However his observation is that the "squeezed middle" have problems - household income at the threshold so no grant, minimum loan and parents unable to help much, especially if there are 2 or more kids. I think they would be the ones put off from going to university. I almost wish this new system was really operated as a graduate tax as I think perhaps students from poorer backgrounds would find that less off putting than £x of debt.

Sorry if it's uncool to do 2 posts on the trot!! But I am definitely not cool anyway.

i agree that it shouldn't - but when you look at all the newspaper coverage about how awful and terrible this debt is, plus the surveys of potential students, it is having an impact. it is however brilliant that you son knows so much about it - there was yet another post today on the board from someone shocked that they had to pay back a proportion of their income for their student loan. for years people have signed the forms without reading them!

i do think the middle will be unfairly squeezed - but that was true under the old system too. the numbers are bigger but the principle is the same. i can see the advantages of a graduate tax too, but as ever, we're stuck with a system that is a compromise from all sides so falls down in many places! but that's the system that everyone has to navigate.....

(i don't think many of us could ever claim to be cool either )

2sides2everystory

HarryL wrote: »

I very much think you views are out dated! try 15-20 years........

You are welcome to your view Harry, but are you sure you are old enough to remember what it was really like in 1991-1996?

Go back to managing Fifa.

So now I am Seb Blatter? What was I doing in 1996 ... d'oh I can't remember but I am sure I shook hands at the end ?!

PS (edit): Had to add this in. But I've just read some of your posts and whats with your username? You have never appeared to give even slightly balanced opinions or arguments using points from the other side.

Well you never once mentioned Boxing or Loadsamoney Harry, so hark whose talkin'

Its very much 'this is my point of view and tis better than yours'

Well there's a good chance it might be, I grant you

...and the assumptions you make to back up your 'ranting' posts are rediculous.

uh huh ...

you call people progantists and government bloggers ...

Well highlighting protagonists is like shooting fish in a barrel on these threads ...

... with zero proof ...

... well I was just teasing Lokolo about being a government blogger but he's come back with some very interesting peer-group starting salary info today, hasn't he?



I just strongly believe that with so many "regulars" touting the government line that the obvious other side of the story needs to be put just as often as either Taiko, TOW, ONW, melancholly or Lokolo continue to post the government line.

It's just not right to continually ignore the catastrophe of saddling young people with OUR DEBT.

How do you justify that HarryL?

kayr_2

2sides2everystory wrote: »

the obvious other side of the story needs to be put just as often as either Taiko, TOW, ONW, melancholly or Lokolo continue to post the government line.

I don't think that's fair really. I may not agree with all they say either but I wouldn't interpret it in the same way you do. Not everything is black and white - most people are somewhere along a spectrum of views. If you read melancholly and lokolo's posts properly you will see they are definitely not posting the government line. You can disagree with their conclusions perhaps (as I do sometimes) but it is unreasonable and unhelpful to label them as government supporters. I also think the accusations levelled at you are OTT - I both agree and disagree with stuff you write but surely that's normal. Not much point in taking sides and seeing others as the enemy - it won't help our kids. Reasoned argument backed up by facts/common sense (yes I know that can be debatable!) is much better.