speed limits

Lum

In my experience the majority of people who do 40 in a 30 are the same people who do 40 everywhere, you're never going to be able to convince there people that they're doing anything wrong.

35 in a 30 is much more common and can be easily explained by speedo inaccuracy or simply by speed drifting as they're too busy watching the road for that toddler running out rather than staring at their bloody speedo all day.

almillar

lindopski - no-one has asked anyone to speed in this thread - please continue to drive at the speed limit. DO NOT however, hog the outside lane of a multi lane road - speed doesn't come into it.

lindopski_2

Lum its quite easy to stick to 30 and watch the road sufficiently, I manage quite well though I admit I am amongst a select few on Britains roads the newer unofficial 40 in a 30 being the standard norm, even the police flaunt it regularly.

Impatience is quite key here, the world is in a rush and nothing must slow it down - to hell with the rules.
I also dont hog the outside lanes, but the only reason folks want them clear is because the limit is again not enough if its a 40 you must go 50 if its a 60 you must go 70 and so on.

I appreciate it is annoying when a pensioner is doing 30 in the outside lane of a national speed limit road but those occasions are few and far between. I bump into said dodderer about twice a month, I see the speeder however every 30-60 seconds.

I can guarantee that when I leave later to go out, I will get in my car drive away with nothing behind me at all in the rear view mirror. within 60 seconds I will have a car right behind me, annoyed at the fool doing 30 in a 30 limit, I will reach the dual carriageway and be overtaken instantly by said Irate driver now doubling the 40 limit to show his/her annoyance.
If only I had a camera to film it all and a place to put on the bet - I know I would be quids in, and I'm not even a TV psychic.

safe driving all

jase1

The 20 and 30mph limits are the ones that really should be followed more religiously than any other, as these are the built-up areas where you can reasonably expect people to be crossing. Not that the higher limits are unimportant, but Lum is right when he mentions that a very high percentage of speeders in built-up areas are the same drivers causing tailbacks on the A-roads. The thought patterns going on in the heads of these drivers are lost on me.

I feel no shame whatsoever in holding drivers to 30mph going through rural villages. You often get people you've recently overtaken in an NSL catching you up, and then tailgating through these villages when you are obeying the 30 limit, often nearby primary schools etc.

No doubt these people then appear on forums moaning about people overtaking them as they're driving 'safely' at 40 in a 60, conveniently forgetting their illegal and unsafe driving.

Bongles

almillar wrote: »

Bongles, I can't quote a law stating that it's illegal

That's because there isn't one .

almillar wrote: »

but the Highway Code definitely states that you must not overtake on the left, unless there is a queue of slow moving traffic in the outside lane.

It doesn't say "must not", it just says "don't". "Must not" has a special meaning in the HC that doesn't apply here. And as an aside, at least for motorways the queue doesn't have to be slow-moving. The HC also says that the other guy shouldn't be in lane 2 in the first place. Of course, people drive in the worng lane sometimes, but the HC generally isn't great on advice for situations where other people aren't obeying it.

almillar wrote: »

I will generally wait a while, flash, wait a while, then overtake on the inside. No aggression though.

Just to clarify... In this particular case I was discussing driving in lane 1 and coming upon someone slower in lane 2 (on a 2 lane road). Out of interest, would you wait and flash in that situation? And if so, from your position in lane 1 - or would you move into lane 2 behind them? Waiting behind and trying to get them to move is your only option if you don't want to pass on their left. Personally I'd prefer to just pass them and be gone, keeping my interaction with them to a minimum (basically zero). Other people may feel differently.

Different if you're in lane 2 overtaking someone and the driver ahead in lane 2 fails to move over when there's space, but that's not what I was discussing in this post.

almillar wrote: »

If you want to follow the Highway Code though, you'll sit behind indefinitely and wait for them to move

Indeed. Which would be ludicrous - and makes this a perfect example for remembering that the HC is not the law.

Bongles

Lum wrote: »

as they're too busy watching the road for that toddler running out rather than staring at their bloody speedo all day.

While I think it really shouldn't be hard to keep within a 30 speed limit, you make a very good point. I have often wondered whether speedos should be designed so that they only register a value at higher speeds but below, say, 40 they don't display a reading.

The idea of someone driving a car round a built up area and thinking that the way to stay safe is to know what a needle on a dial says terrifies me. If I can't do it safely without a speedo I shouldn't be doing it, particularly in an environement where there are so many people available for me to kill.

Azari

jase1 wrote: »

You often get people you've recently overtaken in an NSL catching you up, and then tailgating through these villages when you are obeying the 30 limit

I had a classic example of that, many years ago, before the M25 linked up, driving between section at ~ midnight. It was a stretch that went village - open road - village - open road - village - open road - village - open road for some distance.

I overtook a mini-countryman and left him way behind. Then I encountered a village and slowed down to ~ 30. And the mini appeared and slowly gained on me, slowly overtook and moved into the distance. Village ends, I accelerate and overtake the mini. Rinse and repeat, over and over again. He was just doing a pretty constant 40mph.

In reality, there wasn't much to criticise as the villages were completely deserted at that time of night and he wasn't doing a stupid speed but it was quite amusing at the time.

mikey72

Bongles wrote: »

While I think it really shouldn't be hard to keep within a 30 speed limit, you make a very good point. I have often wondered whether speedos should be designed so that they only register a value at higher speeds but below, say, 40 they don't display a reading.

The idea of someone driving a car round a built up area and thinking that the way to stay safe is to know what a needle on a dial says terrifies me. If I can't do it safely without a speedo I shouldn't be doing it, particularly in an environement where there are so many people available for me to kill.

Is there a name for that?
speedoaphobia maybe?

If you disconnect your speedo, and try it past a few cameras, after 4 goes you'll know if every one agrees you shouldn't be doing it.
Post back and let us know.

jase1

I don't know why manufacturers can't introduce some sort of analogue to cruise control where you can set it to prevent the car exceeding say 30 unless you boot it (for safety reasons, there's that rare occasion where you need fast acceleration to get out of trouble). So it would happily let you go less than the speed but you have to consciously do something to override it and allow you to exceed.

Since some folk have such difficulty with speed limits I could see this being quite useful and it would get over the problem of having to check the speedo (assuming this is a problem; I don't have an issue with this as I drive around town in 2nd or 3rd and can tell how fast I'm going to within a couple of mph from the engine note).

Lum

Bongles wrote: »

The idea of someone driving a car round a built up area and thinking that the way to stay safe is to know what a needle on a dial says terrifies me. If I can't do it safely without a speedo I shouldn't be doing it, particularly in an environement where there are so many people available for me to kill.

:T

And this is my issue with the whole "speed kills" campaign, and the "hit me at 30" ad which I'm sure you've all seen.

Whether it's an urban 30 limit or a rural B road a competent driver will be constantly making judgements as to what the appropriate safe speed is. Sharp corner coming up, slow down a bit; oh wait there's a giant puddle on that corner, slow down some more; I've got Linglongs fitted on the front, slow down even more again; wide open 4 mile long straight section with nothing but grass either side and not a single living thing in sight, wayhey! time to boot it a bit.

It's a skill, nobody sits there with a mathematical formula to calculate the exact speed, same as nobody uses a compass and protractor to calculate where they need to be to catch a cricket ball. At best the limit is going to be an approximation of a safe speed in average conditions, at worst it's downright misleading and dangerous.

Urban 30 limit, transit van parked at the side of the road. You do not want to pass that van at 30 as someone could step out from behind it, you probably don't want to pass it at 20 unless you can give it a decent wide berth, but hey the government man on the telly says stick to 30 and you'll be fine, no need to think about that pesky van and whoever could be standing behind it.

Then just add in a healthy dose of paranoia from all the cameras about causing even more people to concentrate on matching the number on a dial with the number on a sign rather than what is going on around them and you can easilly see why road safety hasn't really improved much over the last ten or so years, despite previously having year on year improvements for the last 40+ years beforehand.