Paying for Landlords Security Lighting!

silvercar

Your obligation is to behave in a responsible tenant like manner. Given you know the call on the electric, you either need to ensure there is enough credit to protect the property from the weather ie allow for the floodlights using electric, or you need to tell the landlord that you are away and there is only enough meter credit for background stuff. If you knowingly leave enough credit so it runs out in winter while you are away, I'm not sure you can say that the landlord shouldn't have been draining your supply, without warning him.

Wine_of_the_World

I still don't see how he can get away with tapping into your electricity. Surely you have a contract with the energy supplier - to supply you with electricity - not other people. I'm sure theyd be reluctant to investigate as there still getting paid regardless - but if you told them something along the lines of you think someone's tapping into your supply and it looks dodgy so could they cone and check it out - thinking of safety - surely it must have been checked out by an electrician before you moved in? Or does it look a bit of a home-made job?

You sound so reasonable! I'd be so mad! And im sure you can't be expected to tell him you wont be topping up the meter when you're away as it's NONE of his business. You are entitled to quite enjoyment - including enjoyment of the electricity you paid for. If its not in your contract about paying for his security lighting then I see it as stealing. It doesnt matter how long he has been taking it from the meter of you property - if he didn't change it before you moved it then it's stealing!

Definatly get the local paper involved - if you don't do it before you leave as you'd feel understandably uncomfortable make sure you get some good quality photos to go along with the story. Hopefully it will be enough to stop anyone else being taken advantage of him!

chris1973

you either need to ensure there is enough credit to protect the property from the weather ie allow for the floodlights using electric

Could you please explain exactly how I am liable solely for this expense when I am not the only person using the shared communal facilities which they cover, and the Landlord, another tenant and the many people renting the stable facilities from the landlord all use them and benefit from them in a far greater percentage than I do.

In addition three out of the four floodlights are attached to the landlords' area of the property so can you explain how I am liable for them?

To protect the property from the weather ie allow for the floodlights using electric

Can you also explain exactly how exactly floodlights protect the property from "The Weather" because your comment in this respect makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

In most rental places I've been in, where external floodlights have been fitted, they have an on/off switch, so I, as the tenant can CHOOSE when to use them. The decision has not been made by my 'neighbour' who can run them when he likes entirely at my expense. In this case, my landlord happens to be my 'neighbour' and the one benefitting from the floodlights both socially and commercially but i'm not sure how this makes it 'right'?. The landlord also has full control over the lights and whether the power to them is on or off, I have no control of this whatsoever, despite being the one funding 100% of their use, even when i'm 100 miles from the property!.

I've never yet been in a rented property where running outside floodlights during the evening is done to protect the property from the weather and its actually stated as a contractual agreement in an AST.

Can you also supply sources which confirm that I have an obligation to solely fund lighting which is partly utilised by a stable block, which I do not rent, own nor have access to or connection with?

I'm sure theyd be reluctant to investigate as there still getting paid regardless - but if you told them something along the lines of you think someone's tapping into your supply and it looks dodgy so could they cone and check it out

Anything beyond the actual meter side is nothing to do with the DNO, and they wont get involved. If he was tapping it from the service fuse (unmetered) side it would be another matter entirely. I read on various other forums of instances where Energy theft was occuring between neighbours, and when approached the DNO told them that they needed to get an Electrician in to officially confirm the 'tap' and then take the matter to court themselves. As long as the energy used is being metered, the supply company dont care who pays for it.

You sound so reasonable! I'd be so mad!

Oh i'm mad, each time I 'lose' around £1.00 - £2.00 credit off the meter solely down to floodlights that i'm not triggering and not getting the full benefit of, but I also like to think I have common sense and yes, reasonable too, and shouting the odds across the patio wont change anything at all, and will probably just make moving on harder to do, and become a tit-for-tat exchange over the next month or two.

And im sure you can't be expected to tell him you wont be topping up the meter when you're away as it's NONE of his business. You are entitled to quite enjoyment - including enjoyment of the electricity you paid for

Well, this is generally the opinion on this thread and the other places i've asked the same question, even from LL themselves!. I'm just wondering why 'Silvercar' has taken a radically different approach!.

silvercar

I would think to cover yourself, in case the electric ran out and the pipes burst, you should inform the landlord that you have left sufficient in the meter to cover the electrics in your flat. So putting the landlord in the position where he is aware that the electricity may run out and the pipes burst. Then the LL has the choice whether to top up your meter or to rewire the lights away from your meter.

In a deposit dispute, if you admit to knowing the electricity was likely to run out, you may be liable.

G_M

Why ever would it?, i'm not about to start pulling fuses and cutting off his security lights as some are suggesting in order to start world war 3.

My concern about a dispute was in response to your post:

my notice to inform him that i'm moving out in 28 days is typed and will be handed to him personally in the Morning!.

If you give insufficient notice, the LL may demand additional rent and this may become a dispute. Hence my warning to you to get the Notice period right.

My use of the 1st of the month was an example only, since I do not have visibility of your tenancy agreement hence do not know the relevant dates.

In response to your other question, the previous tenant moved out on the 15th of the month, I moved in and paid the first months rent on the 16th. Nothing was said in relation to these dates in relation to any AST between the previous tenant and the LL.

??? The previous tenant's AST is totally irrelevant. It is YOUR tenancy that matters. When did YOUR fixed term end? If, as you now imply (but do not state catagorically) it ended on 15th, then your tenancy periods are now 16th - 15th, so your Notice tomorrow should not be 28 days but should be timed to end on 15th December (incorporating the tenancy period 16 Nov - 15 Dec).

(unless you want to risk the dispute I warned of!)

RAS

Chris

Please listen to peoplke here regardign your period of notice, otherwise you will end up paying rent twice. The statutory periodf of notice for England and Wales, after the fixed term ends, you have to give a minimum of one month's notice - timed to complete at the end of your rental period - so if your rent is due on the 16th, you have to move out by 23.59 on the 15th, and pay rent until that time.

What deposit did you pay and is it protected? Do you have a written rental agreement?

chris1973

I would think to cover yourself, in case the electric ran out and the pipes burst, you should inform the landlord that you have left sufficient in the meter to cover the electrics in your flat

I'm still confused as to why you think the external floodlights on PIR's will prevent pipes from bursting?, you clearly mentioned the lights protecting the property from the weather???

In a deposit dispute, if you admit to knowing the electricity was likely to run out

I dont have access to a crystal ball, and the lights are triggered from PIR Movement, I have no advance way of knowing how much the floodlight side is going to consume whilst I am away. IN comparison I can easily work out exactly how much 1 or 2 storage heaters consume overnight which will adequately protect the property from freezing (well I hope so as its the only heating the LL has fitted!!!) , and top up the meter accordingly along with a small reserve. Nothing else will be running in the flat whilst I am away.

If you give insufficient notice, the LL may demand additional rent and this may become a dispute. Hence my warning to you to get the Notice period right.

I've already spoken to my LL this morning and he's happy for me to move out whenever I wish. I'm already paid upto (end of) November and he said that if I want to extend through December thats fine, provided I pay the extra month in full as usual by the 1st Dec and let him know of my intentions by the 3rd week of this month - the final haul is going to be agreed in writing when i've decided, so little chance of it coming back and biting me. He even said that he would be glad of the extra space as he has family coming down from Scotland during Xmas, and it would save at least one stopping in a B&B

I didn't think there would be any issues, after all he had people coming in and out for odd days and weekends when it was holiday accom, and even the agent said at the time of viewing that after the initial minimum period the LL is 'extremely flexible', which, when tested has turned out to be true. Its strange that some people are extremely approachable and agreeable in some ways, but rotten and unfair in others. But that sums up people in general I guess.

What deposit did you pay and is it protected? Do you have a written rental agreement?

I paid £495 - the equiv of one months rental, I have a receipt for the deposit and its being held by the local Estate agent. No idea about it being protected or not.

In relation to the rental agreement, this was created by the LL and witnessed by the Agent. Upon checking the agreement it is basically 90% of the standard content of an AST template, with the 10% difference being additional proviso's included such as the LL having choice of the Utility Suppliers and the TV License, water (bore hole on site and communal Septic Tank) being included in the rent as well as the Council Tax. Basically, I pay rent directly into the LL's account and the Electricity on pre-payment

RAS

chris1973 wrote: »

I paid £495 - the equiv of one months rental, I have a receipt and its being held by the local Estate agent. No idea about it being protected or not..

It is illegal for the estate agent to hold the deposit. WRITE to the landlord and ask in which scheme the deposit is protected. Then if you get any silliness after you leave, you can challenge it.

chris1973 wrote: »

Upon checking the agreement it is basically 90% of the content of an AST template, with additional proviso's included such as the LL having choice of the Utility Suppliers and the water (bore hole on site and Septic Tank) being included in the rent as well as the Council Tax. Basically, I pay rent and the Electricity.

Your LL cannot take on responsiblity for paying your Council tax. The occupier is liable in rented properties unless they are lodgers (share a house) or it is an HMO. This could easily come back and bit you in the bum.

chris1973

It is illegal for the estate agent to hold the deposit. WRITE to the landlord and ask in which scheme the deposit is protected. Then if you get any silliness after you leave, you can challenge it.

Ok Thanks

Your LL cannot take on responsiblity for paying your Council tax. The occupier is liable in rented properties unless they are lodgers (share a house) or it is an HMO

In this case, there are a heck of a lot of LL's in this area, putting their tenants in difficult situations, and EA's encouraging, condoning and advertising it!. In fact a large percentage of furnished accomodation in this area is inclusive of bills and Council Tax, especially the one bedroom variety.

Here are the results of one quick search for the East Cheshire / Staffs area. All are openly advertising rents as either inclusive of C/T by default, or the LL takes an increased monthly rent payment in order to cover them (on the tenants behalf). These listings, I believe are placed by Estate Agents, so if there is anything dodgy about offering this, then (a) The Estate Agents have a responsibility for accuracy and (b) Where it is defaulted then surely it needs policing?


http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-14408728.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-31573225.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-28631734.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-20464167.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-20295462.html
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-20549226.html

RAS

I think we need further advice from CIS who knows the ropes but I think this http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-31573225.html would be covered by joint CT bills but this one would not http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-14408728.html

The point is that access to the first property probably requires the tenant to use a common door with the LL whilst the other property is self-contained.

have you tried the local Council web-site to find out if

a) the property you occupy has a separate CT bill - because it sounds like it needs one
b) the LL has planning permission for a separate dwelling?