Paying for Landlords Security Lighting!

chris1973

To be honest, having got to know them a little, I honestly dont think the "threatening to quit the property in an attempt / protest at getting the problem rectified" angle will carry any weight, they certainly are not short of cash and have actively pointed out in general conversation that, whilst they like having new faces around and the annexe occupied they dont' need to let the property for financial reasons, and having seen their lifestyle, the 22 acres of land they own and and looked a bit into their background, I would tend to agree!.

I guess they figure that if I move out they'll easily find another tenant who isn't so frugal at watching what they are spending and probably wont notice the additional 'load' or complain about it, to be honest if I was on a credit meter, I probably wouldn't have noticed it appearing either, so in some ways this time pre-pay has done me a bit of a favour by highlighting the sudden changes in daily usage in direct relation to the nights drawing in!. Certainly I dont believe the previous tenant was aware of it, and he stayed for just over a year, so chances are the next one wont either, its not immediately obvious unless you live on day-to-day financies and watch every penny....

I bet the contract does not state that you have to have electricity available for others to use, or credit on the meter at all times

No, but it does state that I keep the property in good condition, & background heated (probably as a result of the other tenant flooding it by not heating it!), I dont think there is anything unfair about that requirement, after all, it prevents damage to the decor and furnishings. However inevitably it means using the storage heating whose requirement is electricity, so if there is nothing on the meter its obvious i'm not heating it as required in the agreement.

The meter also has an annoying habit of beeping constantly when its running low, and the landlord is equally annoying at knocking on my door and telling me its bleeping when he gets his car from under the carport where the meter is located!. Now I know why, LOL

and then sit in the dark wrapped in a quilt until he sorts it out.

How would depriving myself of power and warmth instigate him into re-wiring the system?, he's still sat in his Country House, nice and warm watching his big TV set and has working heating!. I imagine that if push came to shove his outside lighting is down on the list of priorities and he would be happy for me to sit in the dark, huddled under my blanket in silent 'power strike' for as long as I wished!, he is that sort of person.

Having thought about it and the principles involved, I think the only way forward is to give notice and move on. Thanks for the replies.

KateLiana27

chris1973 wrote: »

Having thought about it and the principles involved, I think the only way forward is to give notice and move on. Thanks for the replies.

I'm with you. His attitude shows a blatant disregard for common sense, fairness and simple decency. If you can rent a similar place for a similar price, move on.

jennifernil

" Ironically, i've stopped using the 2KW convector heater in the flat during the evenings because I can't afford to run it, whilst at the same time i'm footing the bill for the similar load of Floodlights, which ran last night for at least 5 hours solid!. At nearly 19p per KW/H its costing me the best part of 40p per night to light up his yard, whilst I sit in the cold. Says an awful lot about people I guess. "

2000 watts running for 5 hours @18.5p per kwh is costing you £1.85 !! You need to move quickly.

mustrum_ridcully

I wonder if a local newspaper would run an article about a penny-pinching millionaire LL?

poppysarah

chris1973 wrote: »

How would depriving myself of power and warmth instigate him into re-wiring the system?,

Having thought about it and the principles involved, I think the only way forward is to give notice and move on. Thanks for the replies.

It might not make him think anything. But when can you realisticly move in terms of notice/tenancy etc.

Forcing him to deal with it by refusing to top the meter up until he contributes is probably the way to negotiate your early release.

chris1973

But when can you realisticly move in terms of notice/tenancy etc.

Technically once everything was signed and sealed and the relevant tenancy checks carried out, probably less than a day!, however i'm obliged to give 28 days written notice here. Fortunately rented accomodation in this area is reasonably plentiful, worse case = there are many self catering tourist cottages etc, now empty and out of season where the owners are always willing to negotiate an extended let for a few weeks or a month at a reduced tariff equal to around what the rent here would be, this was the type of temporary accomodation I used for 3 months until I found this flat, it wont be any problem to use it again (I've emailed the owners already).

Forcing him to deal with it by refusing to top the meter up until he contributes is probably the way to negotiate your early release.

I dont need to do anything to secure my 'early release', i'm now out of the minimum term and the months' notice is fine with me, but if he's happy to release me from that obligation by mutual negotiation even sooner then that will also be fine, I can borrow the Luton van from work and literally be out over a Weekend - (one of the benefits of not having a family to worry about)

I wonder if a local newspaper would run an article about a penny-pinching millionaire LL?

Haha, more than likely. The couple are something of local celebrities around the village, and the LL is considered something of an Alan Sugar in the area. Kudos to him, as I dont begrudge him that as he's worked hard for it all his life and not inherited a penny of it, but I quite like the Rich screwing over the poor angle you are hinting at!, as i'm sure will the local rag!.

2000 watts running for 5 hours @18.5p per kwh is costing you £1.85 !! You need to move quickly.

No !!!!!, I know how much its costing, i'm topping the damn thing up!. At the very least I want to find some way of warning other tenants who may move in of their pending 'misfortune' in relation to the stealth funding of the outer lights, it seriously is NOT playing fair and it isn't just a 8W porch light we are talking about!. I think i've made use of the floodlights twice this week, and them being on for 1 minute would do me, I dont need the timer keeping them on for 15 minute periods at a time!.

But seriously this guy is one shrewed and I may even say devious character, with the financies to pretty much do as he chooses. He's not reliant on return goodwill and long stays by tenants, and he can pick and choose to fill his properties as he wishes, I hardly think he's going to be phased by any 'protest' from me, nor is it going to make any difference to how he views the situation and certainly not change it, some people will never change and you can waste months or years of your life trying - I really dont care that much for him to do that!. He's not the first person who doesn't demonstrate decency or fair play and I dare-say he wont be the last, but either way i'm not wasting my time on him any longer, its time for a clean break and a new start, and if I dont muddy the waters, i'll probably get an excellent reference from him.

Wine_of_the_World

Surely what he is doing is illegal!?! He is basically stealing your electricity. Much the same as if I managed to tap into a neighbours electricity supply!

It would be different if you had agreed that he could use you energy. I don’t think it should matter that he was using your electricity supply before you moved in as if I bought a new house and a neighbour had rigged something up and had got away with it in the past it would I’m sure be illegal once I moved in and they were taking my electricity without my permission. I’d definitely encourage you to contact citizens advice, shelter or even your energy company to see what they say.

I appreciate you are renting and therefore want to keep the peace– but do keep any evidence – such as letters / photos etc and then once you have left consider taking him to the small claims court – or threaten the negative publicity!

I do feel for you – I have experienced many awful landlords – including one who tried to charge us her businesses water rates from the shop below were we rented – but we stood up to her and didn’t pay. She sounds a bite like your landlord – with lots of properties and businesses all over the place but would do anything to get out of paying for everything!

chris1973

Surely what he is doing is illegal!?! He is basically stealing your electricity. Much the same as if I managed to tap into a neighbours electricity supply!

I've asked a couple of sources about this, and quite frankly there doesn't seem to be a scripted answer as its a kind of unusual situation. The biggest problem is that the property is an Annexe, and whilst it has a seperate metering system in place, and seperate entrance its is still part of the main building and not detached from it.

The floodlights are not a recent installation, I would say they've probably been in for a decade or so, given the state of the wiring, the fact its in old colours and the floodlights are chipped and going rusty. So basically the installation and connection was in place when I took on the tenacy, so I should have asked these questions and checked it out for myself as I took on the property which the configuration in place.

I personally find this ludicrous, but then so are most of the laws in this country and i'm not surprised that the LL probably has more rights than me in relation to this, and that there are probably loop holes and things he can use to weasel his way out of it

So basically, if you are considering an Annexe or renting any property where the landlord also resides on site, it may be wise to ask specifically what, if any external circuits your part of the property powers and better still get an Electrician to check for any 'stealth' connections such as amenity lighting!.

I agree its perfectly possible that the wiring to the floodlights was done at a time when the entire house was a family residence and before it was rented out to tenants. Bearing in mind before the LL took tenants into the property it was rented as Holiday Accomodation, so the chances are that the LL was footing the bill for both meters at this time, so it wouldn't matter where the Floodlights were wired to.

The problem i've got is that now its been highlighted to him, he's still doing nothing to recitify it or even knocking a token figure off the rent, or even topping up the meter now and again in order to compensate for the usage.

Either way, its not going to be an issue for much longer, my notice to inform him that i'm moving out in 28 days is typed and will be handed to him personally in the Morning!.

G_M

chris1973 wrote: »

..., my notice to inform him that i'm moving out in 28 days is typed and will be handed to him personally in the Morning!.

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I just hope this doesn't turn into a dispute. Where do you get this "28 days" from? VERY unusual!

If your have an AST, in Eng or Wales, and your tenancy is Periodic (monthly?), then the normal notice period is a full months Tenancy period. So if your monthly tenancies run from, say 1st of month to last day of month, you have just missed giving a months notice. That means notice served tomorrow would end on the last day of December, not November.

chris1973

I just hope this doesn't turn into a dispute.

Why ever would it?, i'm not about to start pulling fuses and cutting off his security lights as some are suggesting in order to start world war 3. Yes, I can imagine that this will create bad feeling and certainly lead to a dispute, but i've never embraced those suggestions!.

So you think he's going to take the matter further because I dare to give notice, after discovering that he's basically creaming my credit off my meter for +ve gain of his commercial enterprise(s)?. Personally i'd be of the belief that he probably wouldn't want much attention drawn to the fact. God help all tenants if any third party deems this to be a 'reasonable' expectation on his part.

That means notice served tomorrow would end on the last day of December, not November.

Then thats fine too, whats the issue I dont see one?. I'm due to be working away at another site for most of December in any case, the LL will be made aware of this, and I wont be away for more than the maximum continuous period as stated on the agreement. There will be enough credit on the meter to cover the standing charge and the background heating to protect against frost whilst i'm away, I believe that fulfils my obligation as a tenant under the AST. I don't believe there is anything in an AST to obligate me to cover the cost of the landlords floodlighting during any period thati'm not present at the property or indeed any period, so I dont see how it could be raised or cited as being the basis for a dispute.

In response to your other question, the previous tenant moved out on the 15th of the month, I moved in and paid the first months rent on the 16th. Nothing was said in relation to these dates in relation to any AST between the previous tenant and the LL. Surely this would be VERY unusual if he was obligated to remain there until his notice period at the end of the following month.

Either way, I dont intend to spend any longer than i'm obliged to, in a property where the landlord has essentially an unlimited, uncapped connection directly to a prepayment meter which i'm paying 100% of the credit for, and doesn't play fair when its discovered and brought to the table. I suspect most other people here would be doing pretty much the same thing as i'm doing in this situation.

There is also a 13A socket in the meter cupboard at ground level, which is fed off my meter which also makes me wonder what, if any appliances have been connected to this (lawn mower, hoover for the car etc) whilst i'm at work. Okay, I can't prove anything in this respect, but certainly any trust in relation to its existance, is no longer tenable!.