ceiling collapsed, advice needed!

makoto

Two years ago one of our bedrooms had a leak over the ceiling from the bathroom of the flat upstairs. Landlord brought in the plumber to fix the leak and a handyman to just paint the ceiling with fungicidal paint.

A year and a half later the room begun smelling foul again, discoloured patches had shown up on the ceiling and there was a leak again. We wrote a letter to the landlord and they said the problem was the roof this time and not the bathroom. They had a roofing company for a month doing the roof. In our letter we expressed a concern about them checking for rot, mold etc. What they did was to bring in the same handyman and re-paint the ceiling over again after the roof was done.

Two months later the patches started reappearing and the smell was back, before we even managed to contact the landlord for the 3rd time over the same issue, half the ceiling collapsed making a terrible noise(thank god nobody was in the room at the time!).

The ceiling looks completely rotten inside and we have secured the room. The landlord was informed immediately and called someone who apparently is going to come in two days later!

In short, we cannot assess the scale of the problem but we understand this repair could take a lot of time as the ceiling has to be removed entirely and replaced. This may affect our jobs and dailiy life.

This rot could have developed over years of slow leakage, and the landlord is totally responsible for not addressing the problem correctly not once, but twice. Apart from the injury this could have caused us, the debris is possibly full of mold spores and all this must be cleaned by a specialist in a way that we are not exposed to it. On top of this we have asthma and this is a potential health hazard.

This situation has caused us a lot of distress and frustration. We are thinking to take legal advice from a solicitor and put a few things in writing to protect ourselves from any unexpected outcome. We don't want to come to a conflict with the landlord but our experience with them shows they are not capable to address problems thoroughly and they keep recurring.

Considering this incident, can we oblige them to inspect the whole property and ensure we won't be having any other ceilings falling on our heads?

G_M

Write to the landlord asking that he instruct a surveyor (not a handyman!) to inspect and report. It seems likely (though far too late) that replacing the ceiling will solve the problem (provided the bathroom/roof leaks) have been sorted.

You are absolutely right that just painting over wet or soddn plaster is inappropriate. It should either have been dried out thoroughly first, or, if damaged beyond drying, replaced.

If the landlord will not address the repairs professionally, involve Environmental Health at the council.

If the problem and/or repairs will make the property 'uninhabitable' then the landlord has a duty to provide alternative temporary accomodation. His insurance may/may not cover this, but that is not your concern. The difficulty is defining/establishing 'uninhabitable'. Again, EH may help, or you could pay your own surveyor to write a report which the LL would find it hard to argue with.

lynzpower

Contact Environmental Health at your council. They will make an assessment ( probably with building control) as to whether the property is an unsafe structure or not. ( uninhabitable is generally replaced by safe/unsafe structure these days)

Generally if they find it to be an unsafe structure then the alternative accomodation from the landlord should then kick in.

How many bedrooms in your property? How many people live there?

BobQ

Are there any other flats affected that might join you is the dispute?

I agree its worth writing to the landlord emphasising the seriousness of the situation. Its not certain from your OP if the Landlord is actually aware of the full extent of the problem. He might be and is just trying to patch the place up, but is it possible he does not fully appreciate the situation based on the handyman's report. Either way it needs to be emphasised and the impact of continuing more extensive damage highlighted. If the situation makes your flat uninhabitable he may face other costs from the loss of rent if people had to move out while the matter was rectified and the involement of EHO etc might create even more hassel for him.

makoto

Thank you all for the replies, they confirm my thoughts but also raise my concern about the extend of the problem. The LL is an old person, who to our belated experience is incapable to handle the issue properly.

BobQ, the flat above us is definitely affected because it is their bathroom floor, it could be potentially dangerous if the beams are rotten but the tenant appeared a little indifferent (what can I say...)

The LL is fully aware of the situation, they saw the patchy ceiling twice before when they called in the repair guy, but did not access for rot as they should have done. They have not come round to see the hole on the ceiling yet. The LL called the roofing guy to come in tomorrow, but he is the most irrelevant person.

Somehow the LL insists to believe the roof leakage is related, but for starters the ceiling has no exposure to the roof and besides it takes years for wood to rot to such an extend.

On the other hand I am really worried about him entering the room, because he could cause mold spores circulate in the rest of the house. That is definitely a question for the EH.

On the positive side of things our contract ends pretty soon and we are now thinking to move out once and for all.

We will be contacting the EH and also a solicitor to get some sound advice, then put things in writing to the LL.

Any recommendations for a solicitor's office specialising in such type of matters are most welcome.

makoto

We are quite upset this morning, the roofing guy didn't turn up on time and the LL came around to apologise and say he will be two hours late.

The LL doesn't seem to understand the situation, tried to shift the blame to the roofing guy's workers etc. So I put it straight on the LL and told them they are solely responsible.

We gave them the full picture of the situation, the issues that arise and they tried to play down some of it by saying the roofing guy will put it right. Our response was that he didn't put it right in the first place.

We explained about the mold spores but the LL said there is nothing else they can do and if we feel we could become sick then we could give them notice, although they would want us to stay.

Also they said they will not conduct a survey for the house ceilings in case something else may be wrong.

I have been in touch with the EH who will send a letter in a day or two and also expecting a call from a solicitor to get some advice today.

lynzpower

By law EHO needs to invite the landlord along to the inpection at the property. Maybe then the landlord will sit up and take note.

G_M

In the meantime, write immediately summing up everything you have reported and discussed. Don't wait for EH or solicitor - just get a record to date in writing. It's part of the long term process if this escalates into a dispute.

Sounds like moving might be the answer - better than staying with an unresponsive LL. How long till your fixed term ends? Start looking around - you don't need to give notice, you can simply leave on the last day of the FT.

If you find somewhere sooner, consider taking up theLL's offer to leave early but get his agreement to this in writing.

hazyjo

Had the same thing happen in the last house I owned. Had to have an industrial sized dehumidifier in situ for at least a week, I seem to remember - and the ceiling had to be replaced, along with some flooring and joists.

A tiny amount of water had been slowly dripping from a water tank in my bathroom and, eventually, the kitchen ceiling below collapsed. The wall between my kitchen and lounge (just to the right of the leak) was pretty much wrecked and all the woodwork round the doorframe and skirting boards kind of sucked itself in and split over the course of the following two years. I remember hearing the occasional almighty crack as it split in summer when it was boiling outside.

I also ended up with pretty bad damp in that wall. (I also have asthma, so not great!)

Don't be fobbed off with any part-repair, this needs sorting properly - and might well be ongoing like mine (ie later problems as a result of the leak now).

btw, replacing the ceiling was messy, but didn't take very long! No more than a day.

Jx

makoto

Update, the roofing guy finally came in about 3.5 hrs later (he apologised but that cost me half day's pay as a contractor).

He seemed pretty knowledgeable and didn't go lightly about the problem. He said it's quite serious, pointed out there was double plasterboard and lath above it, adding some details that implied it was an old and possibly botched up job.

He also said the damage is coming from years of pipe leaking from the bathroom upstairs and has nothing to do with the roof (which we could already guess). He suggested that the whole ceiling will need to come down, as expected, and they will have to rectify all the rot after assessing the extend of the damage. My problem is that he seemed more concerned than just his words...

He also said they will place a dehumidifier for a while (weeks possible) to dry everything. We pointed out the asthma issue and he mentioned that he would need to wear a mask himself and remove and clean our things from inside as well as seal the door to avoid affecting us. It all sounded reasonable until he tried to tell us that it's nobody's fault. At that point I reminded them that we addressed the issue twice in the past and asked for a rot inspection which was the LL's responsibility.

We did express our concern about the rest of the property and the builder said that by looking at it there doesn't seem to be ceiling problem. Of course this is not good enough...the ceiling that collapsed had no signs of damage whatsoever. Also I am not really convinced about the extend of the damage but it looks like it has not affected the upper floor beams.

In the meantime I got a call from EH (that was quick), we had a thorough conversation about the problem, but they told me they cannot provide a second opinion because the LL has addressed the problem quickly and from the sound of it they are doing it right.

We are going to send out our letters tomorrow as a record of the situation and request a report of how the damage will affect us and how long it will take to repair. In the meanwhile it's time to focus on getting out.

makoto

The LL had the ceiling removed and a dehumidifier placed in the room, however they have served us notice to leave after the end of our contract which is very close (the legal is correct).

We sent them a registered letter explaining the situation from our end and asking them to take precautions so that our health is not affected. We also wrote about the history of that ceiling. Our guess is that their solicitor has probably advised them they may get in trouble.

What is quite strange is that at first they handed us a letter about the situation while our letter was still on the way, possibly delayed in the post. Their letter explained how the repair will progress and in the same letter they were asking what we planed to do with our tenancy renewal, which is due soon. Considering the situation and our workload we responded that we wanted to extend but with a month's notice to quit.

However we believe that after our letter arrived to them they decided to terminate and take a defensive stance for their !!!! up with the ceiling.

They have accompanied the notice with a letter suggesting that the problem of the ceiling was beyond their control although it was addressed properly in the past by several people. Complete nonsense, this definitely sounds like an attempt to limited responsibility.

We moved to this property because the LL was recommended to us through a common friend, so we are utterly disappointed considering the number of repairs we had to go through in this place. We found out the previous tenant was a crook and got evicted for 9 months unpaid rent after trashing the place. We were a salvation to this LL as we have an excellent history of tenancy. We feel they are totally ungrateful and don't deserve us, plus we are very busy professionals and this whole situation is ridiculous.

Can we request that no work is carried out until we leave the premises? There is no point for us to have the hassle of the builders coming in and out the property as we have been asked to leave. Also there is no emergency factor involved, the bloody thing collapsed already...