Tuition fees 2012 on - Buy 4 Get 1 free ...

2sides2everystory

...threshold ... below which students count for widening participation programmes ... this seems very high ... a lot of students will be eligible under this scheme as something like 90% of households fall into that category (which is why i don't see how it can possibly work tbh!).

Me neither ! Buy 1 get 9 free is rather different to Buy 4 get 1 free, don't you think ?

it's also bizarre that the systems will vary by institution so it's really impossible to make any generalisations........ at any rate, the term pauper doesn't seem appropriate!

Well needy students won't be getting any less needy at any rate.

Taiko

Just from experience, £42k isn't all that high for a household income, at least it wasn't in my assessments area. I did see some incomes in excess of a million.

2sides2everystory

Are you saying that there aren't many households with lower incomes than £42Kpa who send students to university ?

Oldernotwiser

In 2008/9, 230,000 students were from the lowest income group ie. those who are eligible for full state support with household income of less than £25,000.

http://www.offa.org.uk/press/frequently-asked-questions/

2sides2everystory

Assuming that the 230,000 figure is still a reasonable estimate, that may mean from the total 2008 UCAS accepted applicants figure (456,627) that generally 50% qualify for some sort of help.

If the amount of help through fair access is only 20% of the total billed then that kind of indicates that on average "needy" students (if not paupers!) pay only 20%/50% x £9,000 = £3,600.

I wonder what on average, needy students do pay this year, the last year at the old tuition rates ?

Oldernotwiser

I'm not sure those figures refer to new entrants in 2008/9, I'd think it more likely that it refers to undergraduates across the board.

2sides2everystory

What makes you say that ? Are there not some places on the net where we can easily see the answer ?

Oldernotwiser

According to http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php/content/view/153/161/ there were 1,632,245 UK FT undergraduate students in 2005/6.

Common sense told me that there couldn't be over 50% of the intake with household income of less than £25,000!

2sides2everystory

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

According to http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php/content/view/153/161/ there were 1,632,245 UK FT undergraduate students in 2005/6.

So for the sake of round numbers and acknowledging that for various reasons the average undergraduate study period is likely to be edging towards 4 years now, rather than three, shall we estimate say 460,000 per annual intake ?

Common sense told me that there couldn't be over 50% of the intake with household income of less than £25,000!

Well common sense doesn't tell me the same thing without further investigation. Afterall, some say £25,000 is the approximate average (gross?) annual salary and whilst the distribution of salaries fro the lowest to the poorest may not be Gaussian, common sense does suggest that a fair base assumption might be that 50% of salary-earners will be below average salary (and 50% above it).

brummierebel

2sides2everystory wrote: »

If the amount of help through fair access is only 20% of the total billed then that kind of indicates that on average "needy" students (if not paupers!) pay only 20%/50% x £9,000 = £3,600.

I wonder what on average, needy students do pay this year, the last year at the old tuition rates ?

I think you are wrong to direct your anger at the poorest students. When tuition fees were introduced in 1998, the richest third paid the full £1000 fee, a third paid a proportion and the poorest third paid none at all. When the fee regime changed around 2005, everyone paid £3000 but the poorest (I think household income around £25k) got a grant and bursary to the same value. The value of the grant did not keep up with inflation, so they are now paying effectively a couple of hundred quid a year but in my mind the biggest scandal about the new system is that for the first time the poorest households are paying significant tuition fees for the first time, and they have to borrow money at interest to do so. The grants and bursaries, unlike previously, come nowhere close to covering the fees, and that is ignoring the living costs.

Some statistics a few years ago indicated that 9/10 children from middle class families went to University, but only 1/10 from working class background do (not totally sure how they defined each but I am guessing based on household income). If £25k is the average salary what about a) households with no breadwinner and b) households where both parents have a job?