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Gaddafi's demise
Comments
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Looks like one lunatic has been disposed of and replaced by a different bunch of lunatics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15428360The bodies of 53 Gaddafi loyalists have been found at a hotel in the Libyan city of Sirte after apparently being executed, a human rights group says.0 -
Looks like one lunatic has been disposed of and replaced by a different bunch of lunatics.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15428360
The new lunatics are much worse than the old lunatic, but many here believe in everything the BBC tells them.
We've got rid of a secular leader and allowed in radical Islamist militants. As we have done in Egypt and other countries.0 -
Gaddafi reminds me greatly of the man-babies we have on this board: gutless, spineless, forever to run home to mommy at the slightest difficulty, yet with an over-inflated self-opinion and sence of entitlement.
Good thinking weirdo, i could go and live in a hole like gadaffi and hussein.
You aint all there pal so i advise you to never get sent down because if you do you will definitely be put on the, Not On Normal Courtyard Exercise wing:)0 -
Sshhh - it's frightfully bad from to mention the elephant in the room.We've got rid of a secular leader and allowed in radical Islamist militants. As we have done in Egypt and other countries."It will take, five, 10, 15 years to get back to where we need to be. But it's no longer the individual banks that are in the wrong, it's the banking industry as a whole." - Steven Cooper, head of personal and business banking at Barclays, talking to Martin Lewis0 -
The new lunatics are much worse than the old lunatic, but many here believe in everything the BBC tells them.
We've got rid of a secular leader and allowed in radical Islamist militants. As we have done in Egypt and other countries.
The US tried propping up the repressive yet secular Mohammed Rezah Shah of Iran against the will of the Persians in the 1970s. Any idea how that worked out?0 -
The US tried propping up the repressive yet secular Mohammed Rezah Shah of Iran against the will of the Persians in the 1970s. Any idea how that worked out?
There's a crucial difference between not propping up and actively leading an invasion to overtopple.
A good working rule of thumb would be "Don't interfere unless you have fully worked out and accepted all the likely consequences".
Again the old maxim applies - there is no dictator so awful that his successor cannot be even worse.
This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
The US tried propping up the repressive yet secular Mohammed Rezah Shah of Iran against the will of the Persians in the 1970s. Any idea how that worked out?
Could you give me a link to when we sent in fighter jets and ground attack aircraft to oust the previous government and set up the Shah in government.
No? I thought not, stop being a knob.
"Mohammad Reza Shah came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father Reza Shah. During his reign, the Iranian oil industry was nationalized under Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, and Iran marked the anniversary of 2,500 years of continuous monarchy since the founding of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great. The Shah's White Revolution, a series of economic and social reforms intended to transform Iran into a global power, succeeded in modernizing the nation, nationalizing many natural resources, and extending suffrage to women."
Yes, we were obviously strongly supporting him.
"Several other factors contributed to strong opposition to the Shah among certain groups within Iran, the most notable of which were the U.S. and UK backed coup d'!tat against Mosaddegh in 1953, clashes with Islamists, and increased communist activity."0 -
Clifford_Pope wrote: »There's a crucial difference between not propping up and actively leading an invasion to overtopple.
A good working rule of thumb would be "Don't interfere unless you have fully worked out and accepted all the likely consequences".
Again the old maxim applies - there is no dictator so awful that his successor cannot be even worse.
Inaction isn't morally or politically neutral. It's taking sides with the status quo.
It's impossible to know the likely consequences of your actions. Perhaps it's better to have democratic Islamic regimes in power whose people feel some gratitude towards the West than to have autocratic regimes propped up by the West and hated by the people.
Turkey is a Muslim country for the most part and sits happily in NATO and would join the EU if there wasn't such a racist attitude towards Turks in Germany and France.
I'm not aware of that maxim. I don't want to sit by and watch the slaughter of civilians by an autocrat if it can reasonably cheaply and simply be avoided as was the case here. If the experts in the military feel the same end can be realised in Syria then so much the better.0 -
Could you give me a link to when we sent in fighter jets and ground attack aircraft to oust the previous government and set up the Shah in government.
Clearly jets couldn't be set in before jets were invented however quite a force was sent in to overthrow Reza Shah (link):
Hmm. Wrong again, facts trump prejudice. Why don't you like Muslims may I ask?The Royal Navy attacked from the Persian gulf as well as, by land and air, from Iraq.....
.....Meanwhile, the Soviets invaded from the north, mostly from Transcaucasia, with their 44th, 47th and 53rd Armies of the Transcaucasian Front under General Kozlov, occupying Iran's northern provinces. Air force and naval units also participated in the battle.No? I thought not, stop being a knob.
Reported. In addition, please see above. As Bob Marley sang:
If you know your history,
You will know where you're coming from,
Then you wouldn't have to ask me..."Mohammad Reza Shah came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father Reza Shah. During his reign, the Iranian oil industry was nationalized under Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, and Iran marked the anniversary of 2,500 years of continuous monarchy since the founding of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great. The Shah's White Revolution, a series of economic and social reforms intended to transform Iran into a global power, succeeded in modernizing the nation, nationalizing many natural resources, and extending suffrage to women."
Yes, we were obviously strongly supporting him.
"Several other factors contributed to strong opposition to the Shah among certain groups within Iran, the most notable of which were the U.S. and UK backed coup d'!tat against Mosaddegh in 1953, clashes with Islamists, and increased communist activity."
To continue to quote from Wikipedia:During the last years of his government, the Shah's government became more centralized. In the words of a US Embassy dispatch, “The Shah’s picture is everywhere. The beginning of all film showings in public theaters presents the Shah in various regal poses accompanied by the strains of the National anthem... The monarch also actively extends his influence to all phases of social affairs...there is hardly any activity or vocation which the Shah or members of his family or his closest friends do not have a direct or at least a symbolic involvement. In the past, he had claimed to take a two party-system seriously and declared “If I were a dictator rather than a constitutional monarch, then I might be tempted to sponsor a single dominant party such as Hitler organized”.
By 1975, he abolished the multi-party system of government in favor of a one-party state under the Rastakhiz (Resurrection) Party. The Shah’s own words on its justification was; “We must straighten out Iranians’ ranks. To do so, we divide them into two categories: those who believe in Monarchy, the constitution and the Six Bahman Revolution and those who don’t.... A person who does not enter the new political party and does not believe in the three cardinal principles will have only two choices. He is either an individual who belongs to an illegal organization, or is related to the outlawed Tudeh Party, or in other words a traitor.
HTH0 -
Turkey is a Muslim country for the most part and sits happily in NATO and would join the EU if there wasn't such a racist attitude towards Turks in Germany and France.
Have to disagree there.
Turkey would probably be in the EU if it didn't have such an appaling human rights record.
Also the fact it invaded and illegally occupies part of another EU member state (Northern Cyprus) is not really helping their case for EU membership.
As for NATO, AFAIK, Turkey was included due to its strategic location at the southwest border of the old USSR and proximity to the Middle East.0
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