Elderly parents selling house - need advice with future plans please.....

phoebe1989seb

Cheeky_Monkey wrote: »

Have you considered the possibility of a live-in carer? That way, your mum and dad could both stay in their own home.

Thanks Cheeky_Monkey - no, we hadn't realised that was an option......will investigate that also, although despite DH's efforts to keep on top of their mounting house-maintenance I firmly believe that the amount of work required to keep the house in good shape (whilst that obviously pales into insignificance in comparison to my parents' welfare) would still be too much for even our combined efforts when added to the work we ourselves have to contend with on our property. If only they had been amenable to the ideas we put to them over the last four years of annex-accomodation we might not be in this position now as my father would not have become so worn-out with caring for mum 24/7.

I should also add, that my grandad (who passed away at 90, two years after my grandma) cared for her on his own (with some help from my mum) in their home for some fifteen years after her initial diagnosis with Alzheimer's. She went one day per week into a day-centre, he had no other help from SS and she only went into hospital two months before she died. He coped admirably and she was violent towards him (and the rest of us!) on a daily basis........

moomaa

I'm really sorry you are in this situation, it is so sad. I can't help much with the deprivation of assets questions but do have a mother with dementia being cared for by my father and live very nearby. I urge you to explore further the route the illness might take and whether you (and your partner) could cope with that. For instance my mother has 'lost' her body clock and rouses my father at all hours and won't go back to bed. He cannot complete any task because she will come and help e.g. he puts something in to soak, she will come and empty the sink and put the wet object back where it lives, still wet. It is constant. She must be constantly watched or locked in because she will and has wandered. Out and about she trys to shoplift.......If your father is saying that he cannot cope then what will you do if he says that he will not have her back one week?

In your last post you sound resentful of your father that he cannot do what your grandad did but that is not fair as he is not the same person.

I do not buy your husband's argument about the money being 'yours' anyway and I suspect you don't either or you would not have portrayed it as his view. I suspect this will come down to a moral decision. If you take the money you may feel trapped into looking after your mother, possibly full time.

I know this is not what you actually asked about so sorry if I have over stepped the mark with my comments.

mancitychick

Has you Dad not considered having outside help to come in and care for your Mum. my Nana has carers come to the house four times a day. 1st visit to get her up, washed, dressed and give her breakfast. 2nd visit is lunchtime, 3rd teatime and 4th to put her to bed. They also have set tasks like, changing her bed and putting washer on, Cleaning and hoovering bedroom to do in their visits.

This care package was put in place as social services deem that it is best for a dementia patient to remain in there own home where possible instead of going into a care home.

I appreciate from your posts that your mother may not yet be at the point where she needs as much care as my Nana, but it s something you should look into. Having this care s great for our family as, as social services said be having care in place it means family can spend quality time with nana as opposed to trying to meet all her care needs in our visits.

Good luck.

motherofstudents

It does sound like your mum is not so far advanced yet but unfortunately she will deteriorate and you will have to plan for the time when she can't do anything for herself. It is a very hard decision to put someone in a care home and as your mum is quite lucid I think it might be harder for her at this stage. The problem is your dad has had enough so I would agree that social services need to find ways to help him. My dad had dementia and my mum looked after him for over 10 years to the detriment of her own health. He once poured a cup of tea down the back of the tv, then he tipped over a big cabinet which she managed to pick up by herself. When she locked the front door to stop him wandering off, he got a saw from the shed and started to cut the door with it to get out. One day she got a phone call from the bank to say that my dad had been in several times and withdrawn a few hundred pounds. When he got home he didn't have any money and she noticed that he would pick up random pieces of paper and put them in the bin. She thought that he had done the same with the money. My mum was determined that he shouldn't go into a home but in the end she just couldn't cope any more. By then he didn't really know where he was so if anything, it was slightly easier than when he first started to be ill. It's a horrible illness and I do feel for you and your dad. There are charities and agencies who wil be able to help. I would start by ringing the Alzheimers Society as they will be able to tell you what is available where you live. We used 'Crossroads' and the Princess trust (Princess Anne is patron). They used to send someone to sit with my dad so that my mum could go out. They provided someone for a couple of nights a week so that she could get some sleep. There are some options to help and I have to agree that moving your mum between houses does not sound like a very good solution for the long term. You know your mum and can judge whether she would cope with travelling between the two but sadly I think there will be a time when she will not cope with it. I hope that you manage to come to some sort of arrangement where everyone is happy but it won't be easy.

[Deleted User]

I am very sorry you are in this position. I sense you are trying very hard to find a solution that is best for everyone.

People have offered suggestions about getting more help for your father.., I hope these will be considered. Even employing a 'babysitter' type person so your father can have some 'my time' would help. Again, contacting social services and insisting on a decent amount of respite care might help.

But obviously, your father has had enough. That has to be respected. Its not a decision he will have made lightly. You are now in different circumstances (i.e. no annexe), nothing can be done about that and possibly, having her in your home might not be a long term solution anway.

As alzheimers can change a person's personality even while your mum isn't displaying more severe signs of alzheimers.., her resistance to changes in her care could be part of the alzheimers. I've found people with alzheimers are often quite scared because somehow somewhere they are aware that things aren't right. Could introducing your mum to a good care home for respite care provide her a chance to get used to being cared for by other people than your father.., while giving your father some respite time? I had a nan (in law) with alzheimers., it had a very very rapid onset. For two years my mum in law tried to care for her and quickly became totally exhausted. Eventually she found a care home that was brilliant. The care home was actually much better able to care for her.., they even had mats that gave an alarm if nan tried to wander off. They aren't all a bad solution, sometimes they can be better able to care for the needs of a older relative with alzheimers than the home environment.

phoebe1989seb

Hi everyone and thanks again for all your helpful comments

Just thought I should update this thread as to the developments over the last 8/9 months -

Firstly as my mum was so unhappy at the prospect of selling their marital home and my dad had (another) change of heart, we decided to put a care package in place shortly after I last posted on this thread. Initially this was for carers to go in twice a day, but after Christmas my mum had a fall (only minor, nothing broken but she was admitted to hospital to be on the safe side) and as this occured at the same time my dad was due a cataract op, we increased the carers' visits to four times per day in January. Mum also had a one week spell in a care home (recommended as a very good one by her consultant in old age psychiatry) whilst my dad was recuperating from his op.

Prior to her return home we also tried to persuade my dad to accept some help with the housework etc as well as us arranging for meals to be delivered (wiltshire farm foods, which came highly recommended) but he was adamant that they would manage fine without these additional services. Indeed Social Services wanted to provide him with a commode etc after his op and DH and I were all set to move a bed downstairs for him - but he refused to accept that he would require a commode (they do have both a downstairs and upstairs loo, but the downstairs is accessed just outside the kitchen door, making night time use if sleeping downstairs awkward) and wouldn't let them deliver it or us move a bed :mad:

Anyhoo, after a couple of months of the care package being in place and them appearing to be coping reasonably well (with no more references to wanting to get shot of mum!) my dad suddenly decided to cancel the care package entirely :mad: His reasoning was that it was a waste of money and that the carers did very little. Admittedly on the occasions I was there during a visit my dad would often turn them away at the door before I had the chance to stop him or tell them everything was fine and no help was required! I contacted the care company after this, explained that I wasn't happy and that help was required. Despite this from what I gather the carers would often only spend five minutes in the house when they were booked for a half-hour slot

We did look into a live in carer at around this time but were slightly put off when the company requested internet access and a tv in the carer's room - whilst I appreciate they need some 'down time' after looking after two OAPs, the idea of their 'carer' constantly surfing the net rather than watching over my parents wasn't what I had in mind when I considered handing over a minimum of £700 pw

After cancelling the care package it actually seemed that my parents were managing very well on their own. DH and I were getting over two or three times per week despite it being a three hour round trip and doing shopping/cleaning/gardening etc when we could.

Then this week my dad had a fall whilst out shopping and was admitted to hospital. He suffered two seizures en route and whilst scans showed no signs of a bleed, and inital tests indicate a urine infection to possibly be at least partly to blame, he is currently (48 hours on) extremely confused and is unable to recognise any of us.

We had mum to stay here the first night he was in hospital, but as we currently have no hot water (being in the middle of the first stage of our building work - funded by us I hasten to add!) it wasn't practical for her to stay longer and due to unforeseen commitments neither DH nor I could stay in their house at this time, so yesterday we were fortunate to find a respite place for her in the same care home she stayed in January.

Now, however we have to make that decision that has been on hold for so long - there is no way my dad can go back to caring for her alone and we wouldn't expect him to try. Our first thought is to find him a place in a care home too - unfortunately where mum is (in their home town) has no further vacancies, let alone a shared room so it looks as though we either have to find a new place for them together or accept they will have to be separated. After nearly 60 years of marriage (next month) this seems sad, but it may have to be the case.......

The general opinion of both hospital staff, social services and mum's consultant is that they should (still) remain in their own home with outside help - but having been unsuccessfully down that path already this doesn't seem a viable option to DH and I.

If my dad improves mentally (he is being kept in under observation till early next week we believe) in the next few days I have a nasty feeling he will either want to return home with mum or sell their house and go back to the flat buying idea - which we think is unlikely to work as whilst it will be a much smaller property to take care of, if he is unwilling (again) to accept external help how can it be sustained?

We did wonder about renting a flat for a trial period without selling their house, and DH has suggested one of us (he is currently freelance so is at home a lot) could do the caring in their own (new) home as at least they are used to our prescence already and accept us doing the shopping, cleaning etc.

We're not sure if as property-owners they would be allowed to rent a warden-controlled flat or if someone with alzheimers would be welcomed in such a place? We would be looking for a flat near us btw.

It has also been suggested by a family member that we rent their house out to pay for care home places for them both - with pensions etc also contributing to the cost, plus savings etc - in the hope that property prices will rise in the future. I'm not sure if this is a particularly good idea - initial research has shown that whilst their house is in a very popular road where houses sell (and rent) fast, most that have sold since the onset of the recession have gone for below the stamp duty threshhold (£250k) and as they are in that price bracket, prices would need to rise significantly to get offers above this. Also having lived there for nearly 50 years, whilst the house is very well maintained, it would need 'modernisation' to suit family buyers if it were sold for a top end price later on......that's apart from all the issues concerned with being an unintentional landlord etc!

Apologies for the huge post, but needed to put my thoughts down in writing, lol! It as been a tough few months with DH's dad also being diagnosed with vascular dementia so really hope we can get a solution that will be best for all sorted really soon

Thanks to anyone who takes the time/trouble to read......

BitterAndTwisted

I would warn you against making any medium to long-term plans whatsoever while your father isn't able to contribute to the decision-making. Kidney/urinary infections invariably make the sufferer confused but that is rarely permanent once effective treatment has commenced.

To be brutally frank, any scenario that you can think up which excludes both of your parents going back to their own home if that is your father's wish are irrelevant

phoebe1989seb

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

I would warn you against making any medium to long-term plans whatsoever while your father isn't able to contribute to the decision-making. Kidney/urinary infections invariably make the sufferer confused but that is rarely permanent once effective treatment has commenced.

To be brutally frank, any scenario that you can think up which excludes both of your parents going back to their own home if that is your father's wish are irrelevant

Thanks B&T......

The intention is to find a place in respite care for him in the short term. DH has been over to visit him today and has just reported that he is still terribly confused, although as he has only been on medication for the urine infection since Wednesday I guess it's very early days.

DH spoke to a doctor on the ward who also advised respite care as the best option for when he is discharged. Apparently he is being very stubborn and refusing to take any medication via normal methods. When we were there on Wednesday night it took two staff to almost sit on him to restrain him, he was so agitated and confused

If he does insist on going back home I know for a fact he will refuse any external help - he has made it painfully clear on numerous occasions that he won't pay another penny towards carers and expects DH and I to provide care as it is our 'duty'. We are both happy to do whatever we can - DH already goes beyond the call of duty on a regular basis, but how long he can go on making three hour round trips to switch on their TV (he did four such trips in a 72 hour period last week!) is anybody's guess

Until very recently they were having regular visits from the community nurse affiliated to the old age psychiatry unit, but she telephoned me on the last occasion saying my parents were so stubborn and fiercely independent that there was little point her continuing her visits. She made many attempts to get my dad to go to a carers support group whilst a sitting service stayed with my mum, but every time the subject was raised mum burst into tears and my dad declined the option to go......that's just how they are.........

pmlindyloo

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

I would warn you against making any medium to long-term plans whatsoever while your father isn't able to contribute to the decision-making. Kidney/urinary infections invariably make the sufferer confused but that is rarely permanent once effective treatment has commenced.

To be brutally frank, any scenario that you can think up which excludes both of your parents going back to their own home if that is your father's wish are irrelevant

May I just echo B&T's words of wisdom?

Please do not think about any of this until you know how your dad is.

My mum was recently admitted to hospital with a urine infection (among other things) and she went from a very mentally alert 90 year old to being completely doolally. Once she had received a course of antibiotics she was back to her old self. It was really incredible.

In the end you are going to tire yourself out/worry yourself unnecessarily trying to sort things out.

Your Mum is in a safe place.

Let things take their course - you can suggest (as you've find out) but you can't make anyone do anything

phoebe1989seb

Thanks pmlindyloo x

My dad has had a urine infection before - as has my mum - and I agree that they do go from being completely 'ga ga' and back to their old self very quickly. However, whether it's a combination of the bump on the head and the seizures as well as the urine infection plus maybe the fact that they are struggling to administer his meds, but this time he seems to be making very little improvement so far - although it's very early days of course!