MSE News: MPs hit out at RBS and Lloyds over ATM access

ricabbott

I wonder how many people who post "it's easy to change banks" really understand how difficult it is to actually get a basic bank account in the first place? This typifies this countries attitude to the less fortunate. Many folks have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and as a consequence have had years of credit worthiness changed over night. Lets face it banks don't want to offer these accounts, they were forced to offer them by a previous government, but they simply dont make enough profit on them, hence the "expensive" packaged accounts are being heavily marketed. Let's not lose site of the fact that banks stillmake shed loads from delaying credits in the so called "clearing" system, and the wages that sit in no interest current accounts as the month progresses. This applies equally to basic accounts as well as the premium ones. "We're all in it together", as tax payers past and present so let's get the bank's we own working for the people that kept them in business.

opinions4u

ricabbott wrote: »

I wonder how many people who post "it's easy to change banks" really understand how difficult it is to actually get a basic bank account in the first place?

Explain why it's difficult. You've made a claim here, so back it up.

Lets face it banks don't want to offer these accounts, they were forced to offer them by a previous government

It's not completely true. Most banks have offered some sort of basic account from decades, typically with an ATM only card. Politicians "forced" them to take on automated benefits payments etc becuase they stopped cash payments via the Post Office.

but they simply dont make enough profit on them

They don't make any profit on these accounts. They are subsidised directly by other accounts offered by banks.

hence the "expensive" packaged accounts are being heavily marketed.

As you highlight yourself.

Let's not lose site of the fact that banks stillmake shed loads from delaying credits in the so called "clearing" system, and the wages that sit in no interest current accounts as the month progresses. This applies equally to basic accounts as well as the premium ones.

The typical behaviour profile of a basic account customer is to withdraw every last penny the same day it lands in the account. No profit there. As for other current accounts, I see choices that pay 3% interest, £5 a month, provide free travel cover without charging a fee. So not quite sure what your point is.

"We're all in it together", as tax payers past and present so let's get the bank's we own working for the people that kept them in business.

I believe Halifax, BoS, Lloyds TSB, Nat West and RBS offer over 80% of basic bank accounts on the market. This was the case before their part-nationalisation.

They won't stay in business if they don't look to operate profitably for the longer term. The taxpayer really is screwed if RBS and LBG can't increase their shareprices to a point where HM Government can sell at a profit.

staircase2

I am shocked at the unusually hostile comments made on this subject. Whenever its all about saving money on potato peelings everyone's all happy clappy but suggest for a minute that its an outrage that RBS is about to stop people having access to their own cash and everyone's off with the horse and hounds like a reactionary tabloid journalist with the bit between their teeth!

Firstly this situation is going to make it VERY hard for a lot of people.

Anyone who is unable to have more than a basic account with RBS will now have the amount of cashpoint (ATM) machines cut by something like 80%. Imagine finding yourself in the middle of an unfamiliar area late at night and needing some cash for an emergency. Its hard enough in some areas at the best of times! Finding one you are 'allowed' to use under the new regime is going to be downright impossible!

The result is that everyone will have to go to their local cashpoint before they travel and withdraw more money than they need simply to cover themselves in case of emergency.

Now for many people this isn't a problem but the other thing about 'Basic Accounts' is that they do not have any kind of credit/overdraft facility. So you can only withdraw cash thats actually sitting in your bank account at that time. Which means that you're often not able to withdraw £10 if you only have £5 sitting in your account.

This can make it a nightmare paying for things like topping up Electricity or Gas Prepayment keys for example. Or topping up your Oyster Pay As You Go Card. (Most small shops charge a fortune for the 'privilege' of paying by card now - many from 50p to £1 and calling it an 'admin charge', mistakenly claiming that they are required to pay this to the banks every time a customer uses their card).

RBS claims that most customers live in urban areas and are no more than 1 mile from the nearest suitable cashpoint machine. 1 mile! That means poorer customers may have to travel up to a mile while wealthier customers might only have to travel a few hundred yards away.

This is outrageous.

RBS is saying they are doing this because every cashpoint transaction costs them a charge. So far I havent read any firm detail about what that charge might actually cost them. It would be interesting to see the actual figures for cashpoint withdrawal 'charges' versus the amount that RBS has paid out during a similar period in bonuses! (Remember that RBS is now mostly State owned - The Government (ie WE) own around 80% of it!)

I don't see the logic in only applying this cashpoint limitation to people with a basic bank account. It could be argued that non-basic accounts cover this charge because they use credit/overdraft facilities which are then chargeable. But its simply not true that ALL non-basic account holders use an overdraft facility nor that they therefore pay any kind of admin fee for using their account.

People with memories will remember that not that long ago all the banks tried to start charging all customers to use cashpoint machines. There was a huge swell of public opposition (led by the tabloid press) which led to the banks overturning their plans.

I personally am dubious that RBS's plans to limit cashpoint usage for basic account holders is really about this so called cashpoint 'charge'. It wasnt that long ago that Egg started terminating credit card accounts of those customers who were paying off their cards every month and not running up huge credit card bills! (Thereby meaning that Egg wasnt able to benefit from charging them interest.)

There was a huge outcry about that too - so why is it that the message boards here are full of whining about how people with basic accounts should somehow shut up and put up with this outrageous situation?

staircase2

Martin suggested I wrote to my MP, Joan Ruddock who has very kindly written to both Mark Hoban MP (Financial Secretary to the Treasury) and Mike Bamber, Managing Director of Branch Banking at RBS.

Neither of whom gave answers of any real conviction.

Joan Ruddock has, however, tabled an Early Day Motion (EDM 2201 - RBS Group's Treatment of Basic Bank Account Holders) (http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2010-12/2201)

Please write to your MP asking them to sign the Early Day Motion. You can contact your MP via http://writetothem.com (all you have to do is put in your postcode and the website will tell you who your MP is and their email address to contact them)

Many Thanks,

staircase2

callum9999 wrote: »

People say this but I find it hard to believe. Grow a backbone and when they offer you a normal account, tell them no and that you want a basic account. Do this at every bank and building society, THEN I will believe it is the case. Or apply online/by phone where available.

I'm sure it's not particularly easy to do, but I find it incredibly hard to believe it's impossible.

You don't have to believe anything....
since when did Moneysavingexpert become infiltrated by trolls?

LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING!! They clearly know what theyre talking about because they are clearly experiencing it! Whereas you clearly do NOT know what you're talking about - so LISTEN!

PS that goes for Opinions4U too!

staircase2

jackjones01 wrote: »

Its really easy if you don't like it bank elsewhere.

This kind of ignorance really !!!!es me off

Its not that simple to get a basic account - it should be - but it isnt...

I dont remember these boards being so uptight and arsey in the past - whats happened?

opinions4u

staircase2 wrote: »

Firstly this situation is going to make it VERY hard for a lot of people.

Not if they take sensible action.

1) Bank elsewhere.
2) Use supermarket cashback.
3) Open an RBS savings account with a link ATM card attached to it.
4) Paying for goods on debit card.

That's not the full list. I actually like (3) if you want to punish them because it adds to the bank's costs.

Anyone who is unable to have more than a basic account with RBS will now have the amount of cashpoint (ATM) machines cut by something like 80%. Imagine finding yourself in the middle of an unfamiliar area late at night and needing some cash for an emergency.

Preparation is a good idea. A topped up phone where you can ring friend / family and ask them to transfer funds by FP may also help. How the hell did people cope before the advent of cash machines and debit cards?

The result is that everyone will have to go to their local cashpoint before they travel and withdraw more money than they need simply to cover themselves in case of emergency.

Is that really so difficult then? Has a crisis really been caused?

Now for many people this isn't a problem but the other thing about 'Basic Accounts' is that they do not have any kind of credit/overdraft facility. So you can only withdraw cash thats actually sitting in your bank account at that time. Which means that you're often not able to withdraw £10 if you only have £5 sitting in your account.

Again, planning is the key. I'd suggest always leaving £20 in an account anyway for just such an emergency. That way if the ATM you can use has run out of tenners your crisis is not compounded.

This can make it a nightmare paying for things like topping up Electricity or Gas Prepayment keys for example. Or topping up your Oyster Pay As You Go Card. (Most small shops charge a fortune for the 'privilege' of paying by card now - many from 50p to £1 and calling it an 'admin charge', mistakenly claiming that they are required to pay this to the banks every time a customer uses their card).

But shops do pay the banks for accepting cards. So there is a cost.

RBS claims that most customers live in urban areas and are no more than 1 mile from the nearest suitable cashpoint machine. 1 mile! That means poorer customers may have to travel up to a mile while wealthier customers might only have to travel a few hundred yards away.

It's all about preparation. But my word this "hardship" suggests we live in a mollycoddled world.

This is outrageous.

No it's not. It's irritating.

RBS is saying they are doing this because every cashpoint transaction costs them a charge. So far I havent read any firm detail about what that charge might actually cost them.

My figures may be a couple of years out of date, but around 15p on the high street and 30p at a supermarket.

I don't see the logic in only applying this cashpoint limitation to people with a basic bank account. It could be argued that non-basic accounts cover this charge because they use credit/overdraft facilities which are then chargeable. But its simply not true that ALL non-basic account holders use an overdraft facility nor that they therefore pay any kind of admin fee for using their account.

The typical account portfolio of a non-basic account holder makes the bank profits. Even if it's only the average balance in their current account which is around 20 times that of a basic account holder.

People with memories will remember that not that long ago all the banks tried to start charging all customers to use cashpoint machines. There was a huge swell of public opposition (led by the tabloid press) which led to the banks overturning their plans.

And in another thread on the subject you will see that while I understand the economics of their decision I'm gobsmacked that they've risked such a PR backlash.

There was a huge outcry about that too - so why is it that the message boards here are full of whining about how people with basic accounts should somehow shut up and put up with this outrageous situation?

I think most people are telling them to seek out alternatives that may benefit them better.

You don't have to believe anything....
since when did Moneysavingexpert become infiltrated by trolls?

If a seller of a product or service tries to flog you something you can say "no" and walk away. You don't have to have it. So I don't think Callum's response was trolling.

LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING!! They clearly know what theyre talking about because they are clearly experiencing it! Whereas you clearly do NOT know what you're talking about - so LISTEN!

Whatever people are experiencing, if they don't like it they need to find an alternative. In this case there are a number of alternatives. Different banks, different accounts with the same bank, different ways of accessing cash from the same account, different ways of paying for goods.

PS that goes for Opinions4U too!

Why, thank you . I've heard what people are saying. I've highlighted alternatives. We can all jump up and down and get cross about it. Or we can take practical steps for ourselves to do something to mitigate it.

Its not that simple to get a basic account

It's rarely difficult.

spingoblin

my credit record was shot to pieces in 2008 but i was accepted for the step account which was ideal for me, the loss of atm access with the transition to a basic account was however going to be a BIG problem for me so i applied on one frantic evening in september for a 'normal' select account and a first reserve account and now have both - atm problem solved!

my advice for people who feel the basic account atm access disadvantages them is to apply for the standard select account - in my case during the application i did not ask for overdraft/cheque book and as a backup apply for a first reserve account - so even if you get turned down for the select account the combination of having both the basic and first reserve accounts should still mean problem solved.

chambta

There are very, very few people who cannot be helped to avoid inconvenience in some way or other.

Personally I've seen perhaps fifty customers who would otherwise have been been affected by the changes.

Every single one has either,

a) Opened a full credit scored account in place of the newly 'basic' account.

b) Upgraded through choice to the credit restricted Silver account.

c) Opened a savings account with a non-restricted ATM card that can be used in an emergency.

or infrequently

d) Left it as it is as they aren't concerned and perhaps have another account elsewhere to fall back on.

Not one single person has left me with their position unresolved.

Hank_Marvin

Or E: Leave it as it is because thats what the customer wants & needs at this minute in time.
Or F: Leave it to chambta [ Not one single person has left me with their position unresolved.]
He will save you. Nat Wests very own Superman.....