passenger safety on double deckers

harz99

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

Seating limits allow 1.5 children per adult (except for buses with seat belts where obviously you can't share), but standing ones don't because they are related to the number of grab points. Also for children it may be impossible for them to reach some grab points due to height which isn't great.

A recent tendency has been for buses solely used for school runs to have smaller seats fitted in a "5 across" format instead of "4 across", so they all get a real seat rather than having to squidge 3 onto a seat meant for 2.

THe OP's "child" is in fact a 16+ student going to college, so the 1.5 or "3 for 2" rule would not apply as the students are all over age 14 after which they are treated as an adult passenger.

silvercar

harz99 wrote: »

Not quite sure what you mean by "designated school bus".

If the bus is school transport provided by the bus operator under contract to Council/LEA/College and is wholly for the use of the Students going to a particular school/college, it almost certainly should not be carrying standing passengers. It may also be required to be fully seat belted.

If however, the bus shows a route number, is technically available to anyone to travel with on payment of a fare and operates to a public timetable, it is almost certainly a "registered" local bus service and able to carry standees up to the vehicle's licensed limits. It may also be that this operation is wholly or part subsidised by Council/LEA/College.

As others have alluded to, beware of creating the situation where more stringent criteria have to be applied to who is carried, in order to reduce the number on the vehicle to the seating capacity only.

Councils have limited funds, they can and often do, simply apply more stringent criteria to who qualifies for free or subsidised school transportation rather than exceed their budgets.

It could be that the service is provided on contract to the LEA, then the LEA may think they are paying for a service for X passengers but are only actually getting a service for less.

There is a limit on how stringent an LEA can be, if someone is entitled to free school transport under rules laid down in Parliament then the LEA have to provide. If the LEA provides over and above statutory minimum then they can cut back, but only after making changes to their rules (plus consulting in a lot of cases).

I would rather they applied the rules correctly than lives were put at risk.

In your situation I would find out if the LEA is paying for more than they are getting!

NiallB

Wh05apk wrote: »

I know some of the park and ride buses I have used have been like the Japanese commuter trains where you literally are squeezed in, with the doors closing behind you, what would have happened in an accident is any bodies guess, I suppose if you are hemmed in so tight, it might actuallu be safer as you won't move so far?

This is why if I have to stand on a bus I always try to be between 2 fat ladies

Gavin83

nickj wrote: »

what next bus ? this service is provided by essex county council , it is not a regular service bus

Then what do you suggest as a solution then?

The problem is if you complain and they do find that the bus is exceeding the limit they'll limit the passengers allowed on and it's likely the bus won't stop to collect your daughter at all. Is this acceptable?

harz99

silvercar wrote: »

I would rather they applied the rules correctly than lives were put at risk.

I do not see where lives are being put at risk by carrying standing passengers if the vehicle is designed to do so, and as far as I am aware nobody has said the vehicle in use is not designed to carry standees.

Lives are put at risk by simply leaving your house, walking along and crossing the road every day.

Every day many commuters stand on trains travelling at speeds far in excess of those a double deck bus can attain. Some of those commuters may even be 16+ students.

In a long career in the bus industry, the early part of which was driving buses with a total capacity of 91 including 21 standees on a network of express routes, I cannot remember a single instance of a serious accident involving standing passengers. PSV/PCV drivers are sufficiently well trained and experienced to avoid all but the most unexpected occurence.

Flyboy152

Wh05apk wrote: »

I have a feeling that the limits quoted are for adults so if it says !4 standing" that equates to something like 21 "children"

I know some of the park and ride buses I have used have been like the Japanese commuter trains where you literally are squeezed in, with the doors closing behind you, what would have happened in an accident is any bodies guess, I suppose if you are hemmed in so tight, it might actuallu be safer as you won't move so far?

That's because of selfish people who won't move down the end of the bus, in case they have walk past other passengers when they get off.

Flyboy152

silvercar wrote: »

Then I would have thought the school transport department of the LEA has an obligation to ensure that sufficient provision is made to transport all those needing it to the school. Phone the school transport people in your LEA and let them know that there are no seats left by the time the bus leaves your village.

They have an obligation to provide transport, not necessary sitting down. As long as the bus does not exceed its capacity, they are unlikely to provide any extra.

Flyboy152

Gavin83 wrote: »

Then what do you suggest as a solution then?

The problem is if you complain and they do find that the bus is exceeding the limit they'll limit the passengers allowed on and it's likely the bus won't stop to collect your daughter at all. Is this acceptable?

If a child is entitled to transport to school, the local authority cannot simply withdraw a service. If they withdraw the bus service, they have to provide taxis.

nickj_2

harz99 wrote: »

I do not see where lives are being put at risk by carrying standing passengers if the vehicle is designed to do so, and as far as I am aware nobody has said the vehicle in use is not designed to carry standees.

Lives are put at risk by simply leaving your house, walking along and crossing the road every day.

Every day many commuters stand on trains travelling at speeds far in excess of those a double deck bus can attain. Some of those commuters may even be 16+ students.

In a long career in the bus industry, the early part of which was driving buses with a total capacity of 91 including 21 standees on a network of express routes, I cannot remember a single instance of a serious accident involving standing passengers. PSV/PCV drivers are sufficiently well trained and experienced to avoid all but the most unexpected occurence.

apart from the odd driver crashing thru a low bridge in a double decker

Gavin83

Flyboy152 wrote: »

If a child is entitled to transport to school, the local authority cannot simply withdraw a service. If they withdraw the bus service, they have to provide taxis.

I don't actually know how this service works but it certainly isn't essential, my school or college didn't provide transport, even to those families with limited funds.

Is it a new thing that they must provide transport?